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by ethagknight 1560 days ago
High gas prices certainly preceded the housing crises, but good luck convincing anyone it caused.

Very subjective opinion ahead- High gas prices is probably this single most effective way to curb greenhouse gases and I am shocked that Biden and his climate Czar aren’t embracing it. As it stands, even prices doubling or tripling, I would conjecture that a very significant portion of Americans can make significant changes to their driving patterns at the great expense of a mere “minor inconvenience”. Carpooling to work and school, taking mass transit where available, planning errands/trips for efficiency, driving the more economical car in the family unit when no one else is using it (I.e. drive the wife’s wagon on the weekends instead of the big truck). A LOT more people can be driving motorcycles/ scooters. Complaining about high gas cost is almost a form of conspicuous consumption.

At least around city, most people do not think twice about fuel cost of running errands all over town, they just complain about the bi-weekly fill up. For one example, some families schlep their kids all over the city every day for a very packed schedule of events; carpool more or just don’t design up for such an erratic day from the first place. Don’t sign up for that basketball league with a daily practice on the opposite side of town from school. Don’t take as many YOLO trips up to Lake Tahoe or Napa or whatever… or at least pile in with other people to reduce the number unit cost.

Until people begin to reorganize their livelihoods and consumption patterns, then gas prices aren’t really too high, it’s just more than we are used to spending, and I’m not at all convinced an extra $100/mo at the pump is really that big of an impact for majority of folks to behave differently. We just complain instead.

(Caveat- Low income workers have a different story, but I anecdotally also don’t not see an embrace of more efficient transport means amongst low income population in my city. Late model luxury vehicles and large suvs and trucks remain very popular in low income areas. Gas cost is simply not a significant enough portion of the equation as it stands)

2 comments

> High gas prices is probably this single most effective way to curb greenhouse gases

Partially. The problem is, if you allow (or introduce) a high gas price as a politician, you'll be causing social unrest - and that not just in the US where having a car is mandatory outside of the core of urbanized areas, but also even in modern places like France where precisely that was the cause of the infamous Yellow Vest riots. And that social unrest can deal way more damage long term than the GHG emissions you'd save - social unrest is how the 45th took power. Imagine a repeat of the 45th (or someone even worse)... say goodbye to anything done on the political side to curb GHG emissions.

> taking mass transit where available

Yes, the problem is that you'd need reliable mass transit in the first place. And in many areas - again not just in the US but worldwide - mass transit is either not existing at all outside of urban areas or very spotty (i.e. once in the morning and once in the afternoon as school bus). Governments will have to take a lot of money to build out that first. And in urban areas, the side effects of large homeless and/or mentally unwell people makes mass transit pretty unattractive, so again governments will have to take even more money to fix that mess.

We're all sitting on decades worth of political ignorance and now climate change, Putin and a lot of the population (the ones who deny climate change) collide together in a perfect storm event. And I'm not sure which way out it will take.

Gas prices have been from the $2.00 to the $5.00 mark for the past decade. Adjusting for inflation Gas is getting relatively cheaper but the last time it actually changed consumption it would be around 2008 so it was at the $5.00 mark ($6.55 a gallon).

Biden just released the national gas reserves which is an attempt to keep prices lower. For a long time it has been said that we have to change peoples behavior to solve the global climate crisis but that seems unrealistic and I think instead we should invest in large scale carbon sequestration projects. Telling people what to do doesn't go over very well for anyone.

Just let gas prices be higher than we are used to, people will figure it out for themselves. Blame it on Russia, Saudi Arabia, ramp up local production and call it a day.

I recently sold my large luxury SUV in exchange for a smaller sedan ( that happens to be electric). I’ve always thought I needed a large SUV to do the things I want to do, so far nothing is changed. I personally made a huge quantum leap in personal vehicle choice, tesla convinced me, but frankly the new car could’ve been a more mundane sedan and still saved me a fortune. Lots of low hanging fruit out there if gas prices really are “too high“

The average electric car transaction was $63k in January, compared to $26k for a compact car and $34k for a crossover.

Americans already tend to buy way too much car, financing them over 60 or even 72 months, and that was happening before the incredible price increases over the past 2 years. Only the (increasingly small) upper middle class and above can responsibly afford an electric car.

Even expecting the general public to be forced to switch to hybrids and more fuel efficient gas cars is unrealistic in the short to mid term as the supply simply isn't there. Letting gas prices be higher than they used to be to incentivize electric car adoption could be a logical step, but likely in 3-10 years when prices are comparable to existing technology.

Source: https://mediaroom.kbb.com/2022-02-09-New-Vehicle-Prices-Retr...

If I’m following correctly, I think what’s missing from your comment is that a Kia Rio is $17k brand new and includes carplay, gets 36 mpg combined, 10yr 100k mile warranty, and doesn’t bother with complicated/expensive hybrid or battery.

To your point, people just don’t want that car because… cars play into one’s identity and style (at least marketing tells us it does). But that shouldn’t drive our geopolitical oil and gas strategy. Neither should the fundamental expectation that USA should be guaranteed the ability to drive 100 miles on $10 worth of gas in the average vehicle sold.

What happens when we have a massive amount of electric car batteries that can't be recycled? (not being rhetorical here is there some kind of report)