[quantum_solanum]

here's an article [1] from Bellingcat (who are certainly quite different from RT and Gray Zone in terms of bias):

> In the most high-profile, but far from isolated, incident showing how Ukraine’s far-right movement is being mainstreamed by government leaders, Ukrainian Prime Minister Honcharuk and the Minister of Veterans Affairs Oksana Koliada appeared at an October 2019 event organized by a far-right figure on trial for murder. The event, called “Veterans Strong”, was headlined by the neo-Nazi band Sokyra Peruna, well known for its white supremacist, Holocaust-denying, and anti-Semitic lyrics.

> Some of their greatest hits include "Six Million Words of Lies"... [2]

Mayor of Konotop Artem Semenikhin was interviewed on PBS [3] this past week, and had a portrait of Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera [4] hanging in the background.

[1] https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2019/11/11/ukr...

[2] https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1193919249007415297

[3] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/russian-forces-bombard-tar...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#Jews

[Scandiravian]

I'm confused about what your argument is here. It sounds to me that your position is that this article is proof that Ukraine's government are Nazis (it's not), therefore Putin is justified both in invading Ukraine and the war crimes he's most likely responsible for during said invasion.

Is that correct?

[quantum_solanum]

> Is that correct?

Nope! I think Putin only cares about having a buffer zone from NATO, much like Afghanistan is (or was intended to be) for the US against China. I'm simply providing examples to your question upthread:

> Are they holding political office or have strong influence on the politics of Ukraine?

All 3 examples hold political office and 2 are upper-level administrative positions.

[johnny22]

what about their "buffer zone" with finland?

[Scandiravian]

So you agree that Ukraine is not run by Nazis and that Putin's invasion of Ukraine is unjustified?

[quantum_solanum]

Sure. Do you agree that there are fascist elements in Ukraine's government that should dealt with (by the Ukrainians, to be clear)? If you don't, which aspects of my examples do you contest?

[Scandiravian]

I have no opinion on how Ukraine deals with an internal situation - that's for the people of Ukraine to decide.

I definitely don't like fascists or Nazis, which is why I find it peculiar that you're spending time contributing to a discussion by posting supporting "evidence" for an article written by a guy with a fascist agenda.

Right now I'm more worried about the fascists that try to justify Putin's war crimes.

Ukraine is not run by Nazis and Putin is responsible for the murdering of civilians in an unjustified invasion of a democratic country.

If you're also against fascism, then maybe you should stop helping them when people spread their propaganda.

[quantum_solanum]

> by posting supporting "evidence" for an article written by a guy with a fascist agenda.

I compare sources with opposing biases because I believe it helps to parse out what's true and what's not. Bellingcat is absolutely in opposition to the Gray Zone line, I suggest contrasting their reporting on Syria for proof of this. That both of these sources are agreeing on these claims suggests there is some truth there. If you think that ignoring it is simply the most convenient thing for now, that's at least a more honest opinion than blanket denial and willful ignorance of independently verifiable facts. The latter is far more helpful to fascism than whatever you think you're accusing me of.