[MarkPNeyer]

the main thing i took out of the experience was that i should stop being so afraid of suffering, because suffering can lead to personal growth.

also, realizing i didn't need a girlfriend to be happy was really big deal for me.

[edtechre]

Instead of doing drugs to experience "enlightenment" (LOL), you could, I don't know... read a book and actually learn something of value.

[lhnz]

It's interesting to me that you believe you can achieve the same kind of inner thoughts from reading books. There are many people here that have come out from trips feeling more enlightened than when they entered them. Remember also that you are in the comments for an article about a study in which it is said to increase openness. You're telling people that it won't enlighten? Do you disagree with the results of the study?

The belief you're holding is too strong since you've not been able to demonstrate any evidence for it.

[jinfiesto]

Lol, I don't think it's enlightenment, but I experienced the feeling without drugs first. In the Buddhist tradition, it's known as kensho or satori (technically different, but similar enough for our purposes.) In either case, it's definitely worthwhile and can't be learned from a book.

[MarkPNeyer]

is there a reason you keep using the word 'enlightenment'?

if you don't see any value in learning that suffering isn't always bad, i think i understand your attitude a little better.

[edtechre]

I have no issue with whatever it is you posited after your masturbatory experience. It's just that I don't find your epiphany particularly deep, nor do I see how LSD was even necessary for you to arrive at your destination of nowhere.

You know what actually makes a difference in life? Acquire knowledge, apply that knowledge, make connections and use all of that to HELP other people and change the world. Tripping on shrooms by yourself or with your fellow dunderheads does nothing for anyone, yourself included. Stop pretending it does.

[swombat]

You sound like exactly the kind of close-minded person who would benefit from a hallucinogenic trip.

The reality is, you have no idea what a trip is like. You're building an image of what it might be like based on your own actual experiences, and it seems pretty lame, but that image is just that: an image; a picture; not the real thing.

And, much like life cannot be experienced just by looking at pictures, drugs cannot be experienced just by reading trip reports.

[edtechre]

Flawless logic here. I guess I should try crack, heroine, or maybe downing some motor oil before coming to the conclusion they're not for me?

[swombat]

If you can figure out ways to try crack, heroin and motor oil safely, with no harmful physical side-effects and no risk of addiction, then why not? What's wrong with trying them? Do you have an ideological opposition to new experiences?

The problem with crack, heroin and motor oil is that two of them are relatively likely to get you addicted and then damage your body as you abuse them, and one is likely to kill you outright if consumed.

Psylocibin and LSD, on the other hand, are basically harmless (at a reasonable dose) from a physical standpoint, and non-addictive. So what's your rationale for not trying them?

You might argue you won't try them because most people won't try them - well, that may be a point, but a lot of people have tried hallucinogenics, especially in the 60s, and the vast (99.99+%) majority had a good time, is perfectly fine and was happy about the experience. So social proof isn't your reasoning for not trying them.

Which leaves the law. Perhaps you won't try them because they're illegal. Fine. Would you not try tomatoes if they were illegal? If you would try tomatoes even though they might be illegal, then what's the big deal about hallucinogenics?

[melloclello]

Someone like you almost always pops up in every internet discussion on hallucinogenic drugs - they're always pretty universally dismissed as what you would call, 'wrong', by everybody who actually knows what they are talking about.

[nate_meurer]

Right, because psychedelics affect the brain in similar ways to motor oil, glue, crack, etc. Nothing new to see here, huh?

Seriously, you claim to endorse learning, but you appear to have neglected to research this subject before posting.

[AnthonBerg]

There is scientific research supporting the claim that psychedelics have a positive and meaningful influence on quality of life.

Perhaps you would like to read some of these papers, and then come back with your assertions?

There is AFAIK no research that shows that crack, heroin or motor oil have similar positive effects.

[kstenerud]

Why do you have such a strong negative reaction to this?

Seriously, your comments sound childish and insecure.

[saturdaysaint]

masturbatory

Well, sexuality isn't the worst analogy one could make with drug use. Like sexual experience, psychedelic experience can be life alteringly profound and positive but is almost universally unprofound and vulgar when put into words. I enjoyed the parent's story both for it's entertainment and because I related to his experience.

I'm an avid reader, but experiences of these natures absolutely cannot be replicated with a book. I've never seen someone walk differently after reading a book the way someone walks different the day they've slept with a new lover. Likewise, it's impossible for prose to attempt to do what drugs and sexuality do - subtly suspend many of our basic assumptions simultaneously and thereby direct our attention to many fundamental blindspots in our thinking and experience.

Be careful - thinking that only well articulated sentences are the only valid form of intellectual stimulation is something of a logical fallacy common among brainy people.

[pyre]

  > You know what actually makes a difference in life?

Taking action makes a difference in life. People don't take action just for its own sake. They have motivations. Where do this motivations come from? Ultimately the mind. The mind can be influenced by books and general knowledge, as well as experiences. Do you contest that if one did the same thing twice (once on drugs, the other not) that those experiences would different? Who's to say that the experience on the drugs can't be the one that inspires someone to do something with their life (or in this case, to alter their way of viewing the world)? You? What authority do you have in such a field? What are you credentials to make such proclamations?

[edtechre]

You could claim the same about getting high off of glue since that affects the mind too. Seriously, what every day experience /doesn't/ affect your mind?

My point stands on its own. Taking action makes a difference, dropping acid does nothing for anyone. End.

[lhnz]

So your argument is that (1) since every drug/substance/experience affects your mind everything is the same, (2) consuming something does not create so therefore has no utility to anybody: the only utility is 'taking action'.

These points do not stand on their own. Everything might affect your mind but that doesn't mean that every experience is the same. Consuming something may not make a difference to other people's lives, but it might give direct utility to yourself (for example eating food, drinking water, reading a book, watching a film.) This article was about an increase in openness. If you become more open as a result of doing something then indirectly your future actions might hold more utility to the people that you affect.

[pyre]

  > Taking action makes a difference, dropping acid does
  > nothing for anyone. End.

Converted to:

  > Taking action makes a difference, <blank> does
  > nothing for anyone. End.

You could insert anything into this sentence. Heck, I could insert "reading a book" into that sentence because "reading a book" is not "taking action," yet reading a book was one of your examples of a 'good' thing to do earlier in this thread.

You're ignoring the possibility that something that 'does nothing for anyone' can directly influence someone to take actions which do something for someone. E.g. if someone drops acid/watches a documentary/reads a book and it directly inspires them to open a soup kitchen for the homeless, how does that fit into your world view? Are the two things completely separate and without causation? Or is it only the influences related to drugs which hold this place in your mind (i.e. can never have a good outcome, so therefore if there is a good outcome it can't be because of the drugs)?

[headbiznatch]

Taking actions to alter one's self can easily improve the ability to take actions that affect others. A simple example: lifting weights so you can be a more effective fire fighter. There are many others, including the ingestion of chemicals to alter mind state. Oh, I don't know: like drinking that cup of coffee in the morning, the one that gets you through your emails and keeps you from being a grumpy asshole all day?

Posting to a forum with your self-righteous, unapproachable attitude is the DEFINITION of masturbatory. You clearly cannot politely engage others on this topic, so why bother commenting here to simply tell the druggies how you feel about their petty dalliances? To make yourself feel better?

[barrkel]

What do you think "takes action", if not your mind? Your point, such as it is, is self-contradicting.

[bmelton]

So everything's on the level, I should probably mention that I've downvoted just about everything you've said in this thread except this post, which strikes my curiosity.

Would you consider meditation equally as pointless as dropping acid? How about worshiping a God, or Gods? Sitting alone in a park? Writing a journal? Looking through a yearbook or perhaps a photo album? Are these things all pointless in your mind as well?

[mistermann]

edt....I respect your opinion, but I would respect it even more if you had experienced even once what people are discussing here. From the way you write, I know you haven't.

If you have been through it, it's up to you to judge whether it is good or bad, for overall society, or even at the individual level. But as it is, you simply don't know what you're talking about.

We have a word in our vocabulary: transcendental Some people would say we don't really need that word. No one that has taken a psychedelic experience would ever say that. It is truly out of this world. It is up to you to determine if it is beneficial for yourself.

Assuming you don't think it's beneficial for yourself, I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you think others should be denied this experience, if they harm no others. (assuming you are in favor of prohibition)

[edtechre]

Nowhere did I say I support the war on drugs, prohibition, or any such rubbish. You are free to engage in whatever stupid activity you so choose. Just don't try to claim it was some kind of fulfilling accomplishment, when it was merely shallow recreation.

[puredemo]

Why would you feel it's so important to belittle someone else's experience as "merely shallow recreation" when they obviously feel it meant more than that?

[jodrellblank]

You know what actually makes a difference in life? Acquire knowledge, apply that knowledge, make connections and use all of that to HELP other people and change the world.

But you know what makes a difference to the experience of bring alive? Changing the way you interpret experiences.

(you're very negative for someone who claims Helping people is the only thing which makes a difference).

And since when are people only allowed deep epiphanies, but not shallow ones, even assuming you can judge that from outside?

[MarkPNeyer]

if you are correct that my use of mushrooms has not and will not do anything for anyone, why are you telling me this?

if anyone reads what you have written and benefits from your insight, then you must have been wrong - because you wouldn't have written what you did if i hadn't posted this document detailing my experience with mushrooms.

[iskander]

This comment is below the usual standards of discourse on this site.