[ukraineally]

Shrug? Russia can do whatever they like to their people. Not our place to tell them what's right or wrong in governing their own people. Our problem is the unjustified invasion of Ukraine.

I look at recent history and many Arabic people rose up against their governments. Those people are a strong people and they did it despite high risk of throwing their civilization into civil war or worse.

Canadians have been there to help refugees from those torn countries each time. We will be there to help Ukraine just as we did for Syrians.

As for Russia, we are done being lied to by them. We don't need any interaction with them anymore. They are completely blocked for the immoral and unethical invasion.

[nsv]

>Russia can do whatever they like to their people.

This is a callous viewpoint. My heart goes out to the Russian citizens living in an effective dictatorship.

[ecf]

Russian citizens are what allow the dictatorship to stay in power.

If they really didn’t like Putin, they’d be able to get rid of him.

[ukraineally]

>This is a callous viewpoint. My heart goes out to the Russian citizens living in an effective dictatorship.

You call me callous, that's fine. It would seem others agree with you as I'm quite downvoted. I have a surprising number of Russian interests like Chess. The Russian chess community rejected this war.

We have to remember that our liberal democratic way isn't the only way. It is not our place to tell other countries how to run their countries. That is up to the Russian people to decide. Do they agree with Putin and if not, are they as strong as the Arabic people? Will they overthrow Putin?

[dane-pgp]

> our liberal democratic way isn't the only way. ... are they as strong as the Arabic people?

You seem to be suggesting that instead of elections, people can decide who their leader is by having a civil war instead.

I don't think it is chauvinism to prefer a system where fewer people have to die to effect political change over one where inevitably many more people die.

[ukraineally]

>You seem to be suggesting that instead of elections, people can decide who their leader is by having a civil war instead.

That's not my position at all. You cut context.

>I don't think it is chauvinism to prefer a system where fewer people have to die to effect political change over one where inevitably many more people die.

You and I agree here.

Would you say Russia has free and fair elections? Their election only months ago did provide a supermajority of seats.

If yes, would you agree than the average Russian supports Putin and the war?

[dang]

Since this account has been using HN exclusively for political and ideological battle, I've banned it. We ban such accounts, regardless of what they're battling for, because they destroy what this site is supposed to be.

Please do not create accounts to break HN's rules with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[jokethrowaway]

I don't live in Russia.

Even if I disagree with my government (and believe me, I do) I don't really have an option of starting a civil war. If I do and I'm successful my livelihood will be at risk, my society will be a mess, my house and the currency in which I earn money will devalue. Unless I am poor and destitute, a civil war will never be an option that makes sense.

Voting a different candidate is unlikely to effect any change. Politicians change tune once they are in power (eg. Biden and his promises to forget student loans) and a lot of views are not represented in candidates.

I still don't see any reasons to be blamed for what my government does.

And I don't blame the Russians for what Putin is doing, I'm sickened by the amount of hate Russians are getting (especially the ones living abroad): a lot of them have been trying to escape Russia for decades and only the richest and most skilled are able to do so.

[awb]

Heads of State as individuals are not any stronger, smarter or better than the rest of us. They become stronger and more powerful because of their support system. If you participate in a system, you are propping it up to at least some degree.

Your philosophy sounds like a dictator’s sweet spot. Lie, cheat, steal, intimidate, coerce, punish, etc. as much as possible, but not to the point where the people want to do anything about it. Make them feel disconnected, powerless and dependent on you. Present yourself as their protector, their savior, the only one between you and a world that wants to destroy the things important to them: their family, their job, their culture, etc.

So yeah no one citizen is directly responsible for their leader’s actions, but we’re all responsible to some extent for our country’s actions if we’re not resisting them effectively.

You don’t always have to kill to resist. Some people start an underground newspaper. Others collaborate with foreign governments. Others practice civil disobedience. Others flee the country. Others make art and comedy that helps turn popular sentiment. Others practice economic boycotts. There are lots of ways to resist if you’re willing.

But you can’t be neutral on a moving train.