[traceroute66]

> Use them even when you think it makes you look dorky at the club or concert or sporting event.

Yeah, but that's the problem, just like the Western world attitude to masks and COVID.

With COVID, all those Western big babies referring to masks as muzzles, nappies etc. and shouting about "muh freedom". All this despite indisputable objective scientific evidence to the contrary that masks work, let alone all the subjective evidence from countries like Japan where masks are the norm during cold/flu season and so nobody complained about wearing them during the COVID era.

Well its the same with hearing protection, people don't wear it because they consider it makes them look dorky and they care more about their perceived image in others eyes than their own personal health.

But equally, I think venues such as clubs, cinemas, theatres and operas have to take their part of the blame. Does it really need to be that loud ? Exactly what "experience" is your audience gaining out of the excess loudness apart from hearing damage ?

[P_I_Staker]

Um, yes it actually does have to be that loud sometimes. Some venues have taken your advice and it's lead to lame events where some people can barely hear the music in certain parts of the venue and there's no punch, even right next to the speakers.

It's even noticeable, because a lot of venues have this really annoying practice of turning the system way down for the openers, thus hamstringing their set, and making the headliner look that much better. Believe me, artists can look really silly playing quiet elevator music while we wait for the real act. (what a fing rip if you paid $50-100+ on a ticket).

Loudness is a component to musical enjoyment. Very much like the carbonation, acid, and alcohol we add to drinks to make them fun. In those cases too, our bodies can be damaged too. Often times what's fun, hurts us. I do think it's stupid if they don't have hearing protection available.

[ASalazarMX]

> lame events where some people can barely hear the music in certain parts of the venue and there's no punch, even right next to the speakers

Isn't this a good thing? I'd work with the speaker arrangement to improve perception, it might be more expensive to have more, quieter speakers than a few ear popping loud ones. My ideal venue would have the same loudness in every point, just not loud enough that you have to scream to the ears of your companions.

[e7b9]

Yes, it really needs to be that loud.

Above a threshold (about 90-100 decibels (dba or dbc - can't recall)) the vestibular system in the inner ear (the balancy bit) is stimulated, which ?induces dancing? and ?feels good? ...

https://sci-hub.se/https://asa.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1121...

[traceroute66]

Meanwhile, in other news .... noise-induced vestibular damage.

[ASalazarMX]

Yes, it really needs to be that damaged.

Well, it technically doesn't need the damage, some people just like it.

[flyinghamster]

> With COVID, all those Western big babies referring to masks as muzzles, nappies etc. and shouting about "muh freedom".

It's that idiotic macho posturing crap, as is all too often the case. There are always muppets pooh-poohing even basic precautions like safety glasses because they're "sissy stuff." Well, you'll cry like a sissy when a metal chip from the grinder flies into your eye. Earplugs fit right into that category.

[bigDinosaur]

Not sure I follow: OH&S rules often require adequate hearing protection be warn in employment, and everyone basically follows those rules without complaint (edit: perhaps I should state 'relatively little complaint', compared to protests about masks).

If you have to wear earplugs or whatever at a venue, the problem is that it's too loud.

[bryans]

> If you have to wear earplugs or whatever at a venue, the problem is that it's too loud.

It's a little more complicated than being "too loud" though. The problem for venue sound is that everything is being projected from a single stereo source at the stage, meaning it generally needs to be at the very least 6dB "louder" at the source to reach the back row, and it usually ends up being more like +12dB for a larger venue -- due to both natural air resistance and bodies soaking up sound. So if it's a high energy gig and people want to dance, they need to be hearing it at a minimum of ~95dB (and we're more accustomed to over 100dB at this point), which means the front row levels may already be upward of 112 or 118, which nobody should be listening to for prolonged periods.

But that's just the average SPL. The bigger problem this all leads to, is when things aren't hard-limited properly and every single snare hit for the entire night is spiking to 130dB and over. It would be nice if it were as easy as slapping a limiter on the master and calling it a day, but it takes some pretty intense math to do it properly, because there may be dozens of speakers even in a small venue, and all of those sound waves are intersecting with each other and bouncing off walls and people. And that's presuming the venue was properly sound treated in the first place -- if it wasn't, then all of those compounding sound wave situations are made so much worse and unpredictable.

Ultimately, the problem is laziness and greed. Venues absolutely need to invest in supplemental systems to provide reasonable SPL at the middle and back, rather than trying to push it all out of two speaker columns on the stage.