[fargle]

think for a minute: great engineers - i mean really great engineers - how many do you know? it's pretty rare right? it's an awesome thing and a scarce resource. think about how many you can mention. if you've been around it's not zero or one (yes of course you), but a handful. in my case 20-30. i feel lucky to say that.

now - how many great engineering managers have you come across? i mean really great, not just OK. not just barely acceptable. great - you'd want to work for. you'd quit if they left level great. in my case 2-3.

you think engineering is hard? engineering management is the rarest skill there is

[throwaway81523]

Wrong question. How many BAD engineers do you know? I've known a few great engineers and lots of good or ok ones, but few who are actually bad. They tend to not make it into the field, or else not to stay in it. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places?

[arunmp]

This. There are a few great and lots of ok engineers. But when it comes to managers, the scale is reverse. there are a lot of bad mangers and a few ok ones. yet to meet a great manager personally. May be its because the managers skill set is hard to measure?

[quantified]

And you train quite a bit to be an engineer before you start making money on it. Math starts in kindergarten sometimes (not necessarily good, but still), science in early grades. Orchestrating groups, recognizing performance, mentoring, environmental politics? Maybe you have a truly elite family to train you on that, but it’s mostly just kids sorting by bullying and popularity. (This is where the power tripping jerks learn some of the skills that serve them well.) Then by the time you have some of it informally figured out, boom you’ve graduated (college, this is engineering) and no more practice rounds.

I’d look to the armed forces for an alternative set of models.

[fargle]

i love that. same idea in reverse and it works for me as well. i definitely know a few bad engineers, not rare for sure - but several metric fucktons of bad managers - and that's just the ones i've evaded this morning.

[mcv]

The best engineering managers I've had trusted their engineers. I think that's the most important part, and that's the part that some managers are bad at.

So if you really want to promote an engineer to management, don't promote the engineers who knows everything and does everything, because they're going to micromanage everybody. Promote the engineer that asks a lot and listens a lot.

[rramadass]

>The best engineering managers I've had trusted their engineers. I think that's the most important part, and that's the part that some managers are bad at.

Very Very True. This is the main thing that matters, everything else is secondary. "Trust" implies that you "Respect and Recognize" them as "Intelligent Decision-making Individuals" and that's what one's ego needs to do their best.

[fargle]

problem is that only a small percentage of good engineers make good managers. a few bad engineers also make good managers. it's extremely rare but a few non-engineers make ok managers. but almost all of the very worst managers have been non-technical (e.g. BMA).