Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by gregjor 1568 days ago
Estimates of Americans living overseas vary from 5 million to 9 million. A lot of those are retirees (presumably past the age of contributing to Social Security and Medicare), and government employees and military posted overseas. The number also includes students (generally not earning a taxable income), "accidental" Americans who got citizenship by birth (like Boris Johnson). Actual expats and nomads are probably a fairly small number.

It would be nice if US tax laws and Medicare and so on accommodated expats and nomads. That would likely benefit me. But I chose to live an unusual and minority lifestyle as a nomad, so I have to take the good with the bad. It's not worth my time, effort, or money to get involved with political lobbying on a niche issue that doesn't interest or concern the vast number of US citizens or the people in Congress who might make changes. The government will always have bigger and more pressing issues than unfair taxation of expats, and we will always be a tiny minority of constituents.

More than once I have encountered Americans who interpret my choice to live abroad as somehow "abandoning" my country, or running away from it. And most Americans don't know about taxes on expats/nomads, they assume that if I live in, say, Thailand I am not paying US income taxes. When I explain that Americans are taxed based on citizenship they are surprised -- why would an American who lives and works in the US know about that? Likewise Americans are usually not aware that getting a tourist visa to visit the US (for a foreigner) is often difficult and time-consuming -- they have never had to deal with USCIS. So that presents a political challenge: the expat/nomad lifestyle is not something the majority of Americans (or their elected representatives) understand or care much about.

Good luck with the uphill battle. There is an advocacy/lobbying organization for Americans living abroad:

https://www.americansabroad.org

Of course they ask for money. I choose not to get too involved with trying to reform the government or tax policies. It's a fact of life I can deal with, I have better things to give my attention to.

1 comments

Normally I share your sentiments because it's not really worth the fight and I can understand the situation and why generally "no one cares", but in a comment section, I'm more inclined to put how I really feel. I've been out of the country for a while so I know the numbers, but it still really sucks. It sucked when I got lower priority for COVID vaccines because the embassy didn't want to comment, and it sucked seeing (understandably) the local government shrug preferring their own citizens. It sucked when I forgot my FBAR because it didn't cross my mind as being unreasonable to have additional funds where I live. It sucked reading and hearing stories of expats learning too late that they were not going to get health care. It sucks when I can't open banking or crypto accounts because of the passport I hold and the government agencies related to it.

It's compounded though because of the other side: host country. They don't have a modern definition of "work" and so the rules put you in a gray zone so you can't or it would be prohibitively expensive to start a business and hire workers to meet the business requirements for visas (and sole-proprietorships not being allowed to foreign residence)--all for a self-employed remote work which only requires internet, a computer, and caffeine. If I could pay local taxes, then I could support the local community and subtract it from the US side. And I'd rather pay taxes to the local community. Applying for local citizenship is daunting and requires a long residency period and being on a wait list. Some countries like Estonia make it a lot easier.

It is a non-standard and often glamorized lifestyle, but it is filled with so many caveats.

Having lived abroad as a US citizen I understand and don’t disagree with your frustrations. The nomad or expat or retiree overseas life comes with some trade-offs and frustrations. Living abroad and constant traveling do get glamorized. Digital nomad forums are full of stories of immigration hassles, money problems, loneliness, alienation, culture shock. Sometimes the nomad makes obvious mistakes that complicate their life. Sometimes government bureaucracies and banks and employers add friction and hassle.

On the other hand, finding the information you need to travel and live abroad is fairly easy these days. A little planning and setting your expectations smooths the process out. It’s not for everyone, and definitely gets presented as more glamorous and exciting than it sometimes turns out. A person who is unhappy, lonely, insecure, financially unstable, or operating from unrealistic assumptions will just take those problems with them — living abroad isn’t a clean slate.

Some things in life you can change. Some things you can’t. It’s not always worth getting mad or fighting against screwed up rules or banging your head against obstacles. Every person has to make their own decisions about what they can live with.