[PartiallyTyped]

I consider my self a "commie", but I find Russia's government's behaviour repugnant.

It has nothing to with the average Russian, but everything to do with the Government, the dictator, and those who willingly support them.

That isn't to say the west hasn't done anything wrong. But by my account, we can pin the following on Russia:

- Installing puppets in foreign governments

  - Schroeder

  - Trump / GOP

  - Pushing for Brexit

- Supporting conspiracy groups that lead to an insurrection that threatened the semblance of democracy that the US had

- Sent children to war

- Committed 11 distinct war crimes in just 8 days, including shooting civies and children that were fleeing, hospitals, and wearing UN and Ua colours.

Russia isn't the problem, the problem is the person at the driver seat that is actively threatening a nuclear holocaust.

[ngc248]

>>> That isn't to say the west hasn't done anything wrong. But by my account, we can pin the following on Russia:

>>> - Installing puppets in foreign governments

>>> - Schroeder

>>> - Trump / GOP

>>> - Pushing for Brexit

What .... Trump and GOP are russia plants? got proof?

[PartiallyTyped]

I can provide arguments in favour of the position but not definitive proof, you can decide whether all of this is just "circumstantial".

- First day of war, Trump praises Putin for his behaviour, on tape, call him a genius [1, 4].

- Second day of war, Trump doubles down, on tape. [1]

- When asked whether [Trump] made a mistake calling [Putin] a genius, Moskow Mitch dodges the question, responds that Putin is a "ruthless thug". [2]

- [Repeatedly] met with Putin with no staff / note takers. [3]

- [The first time] Trump was impeached over holding aid of $400m from Ukraine. [4]

- Trump sides with Russia against FBI at Helsinki summit [5]

- Trump veto'd sanctions against Russia [6]

- Trump says it's 'common sense' to include Russia in G7 [7]

- Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador [8]

- Trump offered to help Putin with wildfires while ignoring wildfires in US [9, 10]

And the list keeps growing, consider looking into Manafort under the light of these events.

As for Schroeder, consider that he pushed for gas, is a close friend of Putin and didn't extend lifetimes of Nuclear plants, and after leaving his position he became board member in Gazprom [11, 12, 13]

[1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

[2] https://www.newsweek.com/mitch-mcconnell-calls-putin-ruthles...

[3] https://www.vox.com/2019/1/29/18202515/trump-putin-russia-g2...

[4] https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-statement-ukraine-cris...

[5] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44852812

[6] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/us/politics/senate-russia...

[7] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g7-summit-trump/trump-say...

[8] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump...

[9] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-trump-putin-wi...

[10] https://democrats.org/news/fact-sheet-trump-ignored-and-refu...

[11] https://www.politico.eu/article/outrage-germany-ex-chancello...

[12] https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-10562307...

[13] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-former-german-...

[hirako2000]

that's a whole lot of time spent gathering news articles. I bet you have more. I think what news show is that, no matter which side, leaders aren't particularly interested in representing their people.

[tomp]

This comment is misleading.

Trump didn’t call Putin genius, he called Putin’s tactics genius. Which (at first) it definitely did seem like.

[PartiallyTyped]

Do you really believe that that minor error on my behalf is enough to dismiss the mountains of evidence?

- Trump calls Putin "savvy" https://youtu.be/UsTH-WqbEu8?t=80

- Trump defends praising Putin https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/26/politics/trump-cpac-putin...

> The problem is not that Putin is smart, which, of course, he's smart

And sorry, it wasn't a genius, it was a stupid flop filled with greed and hubris.

Jesus Christ touch some grass.

[tomp]

I really can’t disagree with this:

> "The problem is not that Putin is smart, which, of course, he's smart," Trump said. "The problem is that our leaders are dumb... and so far, allowed him to get away with this travesty and assault on humanity."

Trump is smart, which is why he recommended Europe arms itself and reduces dependence on Russian gas during his term. Other Western leaders are dumb, because they didn’t listen to him (Merkel, Biden - shut down nuclear, stop domestic oil production, invest more in Russia). Putin is smart because he exploited this weakness.

If dumb Western leaders were at least as smart as Trump, we wouldn’t be in this situation. I predict another dumbass similar situation with China, soon.

[krapp]

If Russia actually took Trump seriously as a smart adversary who could threaten their power they wouldn't have tried to put get him elected and tried again to keep him in power [0,1]. I don't believe Trump was a Russian agent per se, although it is odd how Trump's connections with Russian business (and potential to be compromised) didn't raise any eyebrows among the set still screaming about Hunter Biden. It's obvious Russia supported Trump for the same reason many Americans did - as a "bull in the china shop of the establishment."

Russia probably wouldn't have succeeded in sabotaging American politics or sewing so much discord via Trump just being himself if half the country didn't happen to also want to see the system burn, albeit to a different end (an alt-right, anti progressive populist revolution.)

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20...

[1]https://www.npr.org/2021/03/16/977958302/intelligence-report...

[PartiallyTyped]

Fact check:

- Trump wanted to sell US gas to EU in 2018.

- Trump wanted to pull out of NATO -> weaker NATO weaker response to Putin's invasion in 2019.

- Germany cut nuclear because Schroeder, friend of Putin's. See links above.

What weakness did Trump "exploit" and "how"? Also, citations needed.

> If dumb Western leaders were at least as smart as Trump, we wouldn’t be in this situation.

Yes, if western leaders were as smart as Trump, Ukraine would have been lost already, and covid would have ravaged Europe like it did with US.

[ttybird2]

Trump was not impeached, the vote for it failed.

[dragonwriter]

> Trump was not impeached, the vote for it failed.

Trump was impeached twice, the vote exceeding the required majority of the House of Representatives in each case. Impeachment is similar to indictment in the normal criminal process: a formal laying of charges.

Trump was not convicted in the trial resulting from either impeachment by the required 2/3 of the Senate, however.

[ttybird2]

Thanks for clarifying