[BitwiseFool]

I can't help but think Putin's guise of "denazifying Ukraine" was a poorly understood attempt to gain some favor with those in Western societies that see themselves as fighting fascism and right-wing extremism.

As a westerner, I've definitely noticed my more left leaning friends agree with actions that seemingly contradict classical liberal ideals (free speech, free association) as long as such actions seem to be in service of fighting fascism and misinformation. Perhaps some propaganda strategists assumed that 'fighting nazis' was an acceptable parallel to how the United States claims it is defending freedom/democracy whenever it intervenes in some other country. It obviously didn't work.

[newby]

> I can't help but think Putin's guise of "denazifying Ukraine" was a poorly understood attempt to gain some favor with those in Western societies that see themselves as fighting fascism and right-wing extremism.

> As a westerner, I've definitely noticed my more left leaning friends agree with actions that seemingly contradict classical liberal ideals (free speech, free association) as long as such actions seem to be in service of fighting fascism...

Nah, this is targeted at Russians. I think that as a westerner you underestimate the power of the myth of Russians saving the world from fascism. This is the very core of their identity. You can find some interesting details here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1497306746330697738.html

Personal experience: I grew up during cold war in one of east-european satelites of the Soviet union. That myth was probably weaker here than in the Soviet union itself, yet it felt ever-present; kind of representation of the mythical struggle of good versus evil. When me and my friends were playing "soldiers" as kids, we were always Russians shooting at fascists. And I remember loving books for kids where some Russian paratrooper befriends local boy and together fight fascism... This was during the latest stages of the communist regime, when almost everyone here hated communists and especially Russians. The idealized memory of their heroic struggle against fascism was the only positive thing that survived in the minds of people.

Obviously, no mention of Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact etc. in history books.

[CRConrad]

Second time in fifteen minutes I happen to come across you serving up weird apalogetic interpretations of dictators and dictator-wannabes. (First time here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30456634 )

Twice is coincidence...

[astrange]

Russians don't know what Nazis are. They just know some people called Nazis attacked them in WW2, so denazifying = stopping enemies of Russia.

It isn't talking about the Azov battalion or anything; that's an uncalled-for steelmanning because everyone is free associating things they read about in the news.

[c-smile]

Russians know. As do Ukrainians.

My granma told me what was happening in Khmelnik (West Ukraine) at times of German occupation.

50% of the city was Jewish. And almost zero left in first few months. And that was done primarily by locals from UPA - not Germans. You can hide from a German but cannot hide from your neighbor.

UPA and Stepan Bandera[1] is a hero of Ukraine now - it is a street in Kiev named after him. Despite the fact that Poland and Russia condemn him as a war criminal - for massacres of Polish and Jewish civilians.

And now Ukrainian refugees are coming to Poland... That will not be that easy ... Liberal values are quite thin as practice shows.

I am quite surprised that nice Jew guy mr. Zelensky didn't do anything about it. Probably because he is not who rule there.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera

[petre]

Fighting nazis/nazism is a 80 year old commie propaganda meme. They used it to brainwash us before 1990 in my country as well. I think it strikes a chord with most of the former residents of the USSR.