[commandlinefan]

> This all falls apart without a good tight spec

Maybe I've had 30 years of bad luck, but I've never seen a "good tight spec" since I started programming professionally in 1992. Most of the time there's no "spec" at all.

Even if you do manage to get the estimate-demanders to back off until the spec is good and tight, you're just moving the problem upstream - they'll just want an estimate on how long it will take to get the spec right.

[Clubber]

Ya that's a lot of bad luck or maybe it's just the industry you work in. I've worked (and currently work) at departments that require it from biz. We can send it back for refinement too, or just pick up the phone and ask questions, etc.

>they'll just want an estimate on how long it will take to get the spec right.

The people who want the estimates are the same people responsible for the spec, so you're actually pushing the problem onto where it belongs.