[dustintrex]

The preface was written at an odd moment in time when the UK and the Soviet Union were allied, for the simple reason that in times of war the enemy of my enemy (Hitler's Germany) is my friend. Two short years later the Cold War began and pointed criticism of Russia became much more palatable.

Meanwhile, it's 2022, and we're firing orchestra conductors because they're Russian and not denouncing Putin sufficiently vigorously.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/feb/28/denounce-putin...

[decebalus1]

You're phrasing it as if 'we're firing any orchestra conductors' but anyone with half a brain is able to figure out who that guy is and what are his past political involvements:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valery_Gergiev#Social_and_poli...

So honestly, he can get fucked either way, regardless of how vigorously he's denouncing Putler.

[dustintrex]

Yes, he appeared for a TV ad for Putin in 2012. Why is this suddenly a firing offence in 2022? Does he bear personal responsibility for what Putin's doing today?

Denouncing McCarthyism in 1950, Truman said, "In a free country, we punish men for the crimes they commit, but never for the opinions they have."

[nindalf]

> Yes, he appeared for a TV ad for Putin in 2012.

This is an extraordinarily disingenuous summarisation of that link.

A more accurate summary - he has publicly supported Putin on every single major policy. He supported annexing South Ossetia (2008), criticised Pussy Riot (2012), defending Putin’s anti gay bill (2013), annexing Crimea (2014).

Just to drive the point home, here’s what he had to say about the anti-gay legislation - “In Russia we do everything we can to protect children from paedophiles. This law is not about homosexuality, it targets paedophilia.” This is a man so abhorrent that he was equating LGBT with paedophilia.

And you summarised that as “oh he just did an ad, what’s wrong with that”.

Even now he could save his job by putting out some platitude like “I support a peaceful resolution to the conflict” but he won’t because he supports whatever Putin does.

Let me be clear - it is ok for me and others to not want to associate with such a person. It is ok if all of us prefer not to go to a performance by him. If the production companies think they’ll find it impossible to fill seats because too many people will stay away, then it is ok for them to pick someone else.

This isn’t censorship, it’s just people not associating with those who support unjustified wars.

> McCarthyism

I don’t know why it’s necessary to explain this to an adult in 2022 but McCarthyism is explicitly about persecution by the government. Not ordinary citizens preferring not to associate with you. The First Amendment prevents the government from making laws which abridge the freedom of speech, it doesn’t force private citizens to be your friends and supporters after you say anything.

[dustintrex]

Sure, the orchestra can fire or not fire the guy, and they can also do so on the basis of whether they think this will fill seats. What really rubs me the wrong way here is the performative "you're with us or you're against us" demand for a written denouncement: AFAICT he has not said a peep either way about the Ukraine invasion, he is just being required to publicly renounce his past beliefs to keep his job.

For what it's worth, you're also doing some pretty selective reading of the link: he's Ossetian himself, claims he never actually signed the Crimea annexation statement, and the Pussy Riot/LGBT stuff is really an irrelevant tangent here.

Finally, no, McCarthyism was not (just) about government persecution, things like the MPAA blacklist on "Communist" actors and directors were private initiatives, and artists bore much of the brunt of that particular witchhunt.

[nindalf]

The MPAA blacklist was a direct consequence of the House Unamerican Activities Committee investigations into Hollywood. It wouldn’t exist but for government intervention. The blacklist itself did not violate the first Amendment, but the actions of HUAC did.

Look, you’re hell bent on claiming mUh CaNcEl cUlTuRe for this poor conductor. Apparently he never supported any violence and doesn’t condone the current invasion either. Ok, let him just say that. Until then, I and other like minded individuals want nothing to do with with him. If you feel strongly about it, write to the various orchestras and tell them how you and your many freedom loving friends will fill the seats.