[wolverine876]

Without transparency, including public records, how do we hold the powerful accountable? Court records are public to prevent secret government courts from abusing people (among other reasons). How do we operate a democracy, which depends on citizens controlling their country?

And most importantly, who does get access to the records? That exculsive access will give them a lot of power.

[SllX]

Something that stuck out to me about that website is that we really do publish a lot. If you ever had a speeding ticket, that’s a matter of public record now. If you ever had a parking violation, that’s a matter of public record. I mean to be honest, if you just have a car, I can probably find you on that website if I know your name.

Also goes for divorces. By and large I agree with your take, but playing around with the search got me thinking that maybe we just make too much a matter of public record and that some things might just be too noisy, even if it isn’t the biggest privacy violation per se. Still mulling it over though, so I can’t say I’m committed to that position yet, feel free to talk me back.

[wolverine876]

I agree there are limits; there are no absolutes in anything. We don't have absolute free speech: you can't slander, commit fraud, conspire to commit a crime, incite a deadly stampede, etc.

I think the main concern is that the more powerful the actor (e.g., government is very powerful) the more important transparancy is, and the more vulnerable the actor, the more important privacy is.

For example, if an Apple (picking a random company) employee complains to authorities about dangerous working conditions, that employee may be very vulnerable - Apple could blacklist them; other businesses, if they learned of the complaint, could do the same, not wanting a 'troublemaker'. And that employee may be financially vulnerable, needing the job; their privacy should be maintained if possible. But Apple and the government are both powerful and there should be transparency about the working conditions, investigation, and outcome.

[SllX]

So what’s the limiting principle you would use? That’s the problem. I no more care about Apple’s speeding violations than I do Joe Schmo’s, but I probably do care about whether Joe here has a criminal history if I’m interviewing him, and the nature of that history.

You could go by legal entity, just make lawsuits involving corporations public, and lawsuits between individuals private: but while Apple might have global influence, your rich and litigious neighbor in a rural county is probably a more immediate concern to you. Also individuals can sue corporations and corporations can sue individuals.

I’m still inclined to think court records should stay public, but I’m now more interested in seeing if there’s a kind of filter we can put on what we make public than I was two weeks ago.

[wolverine876]

Two thoughts:

* There are different levels of availability: For example, some court records could be public but not available outside the courthouse.

* Court records could be public by default, but take into account certain factors: Public interest, the power of the party, the vulnerability of the party. Criminal cases should probably be public - it is not dispute resolution (as with civil cases) but the government taking someone's freedom and/or property. The government's actions should be transparent.

[SllX]

I think I’m with you on the first one, but I think on point two you have too many heuristics that themselves would have to be litigated and eat into court time.

[rhacker]

With your same example though, now this employee is listed in a bunch of Apple lawsuits and will be unable to ever get a job again because of this kind of search engine.

[wolverine876]

That was part of my point: The vulnerable person has more need of privacy.

[oh_sigh]

I have owned a car in NY, FL, and CA, have been married, and have received parking violations in all 3 of those states, and my very unique name is not present at all on that website.

[function_seven]

I think their coverage is still spotty. I'm in California, and searched some names I know. The results came from some counties, but nothing from others. Notably I never saw anything from Los Angeles County, but tons of results from San Bernardino County.

My own name brought up a couple tickets. In 2014 I got a cell phone ticket. There's something kind of funny seeing an all-caps official document explaining that THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA were all arrayed against me! :)

[mistrial9]

there are at least six adults in the USA with my same first and last name, who are professionals and middle-aged .. one of the others died of a drug overdose, and looks a bit like me!

new world now

[SllX]

Fair. I did search out myself and several others I know. Didn’t find myself, but did find out that there’s a guy with a very similar name to me (different middle name) that likes to live dangerously in the same State but in several different counties racking up speeding violations like there’s no tomorrow.

I was able to find almost every single other person I searched though, chose not to dig into it any further than I could confirm it was someone I actually knew, typically by birth date.

[ghaff]

AFAIK, a parking ticket would be written against a car/license plate. Obviously that can be attached to a registration if the ticket is unpaid but it's not clear to me that a record of the violation would necessarily have the name attached in the record.

[sacrosancty]

It's possible to be both not public enough to ruin people's lives and public enough for journalists or concerned individuals to find. In New Zealand, voter registration details are, by law, available to look at but not to copy. Anyone can walk in to a public library anonymously and rifle through the book but the book is chained to the desk and you're not allowed to photocopy it or take photos. Also, it's only present in the local libraries near where the voters live.

[giantg2]

One thing to note, judicial and Bar complaints are generally not considered court records.

In theory, anything that went to trial would have transcripts available (unless it's sealed, like for minors). Many of these complaints could still have the transcripts available for the cases associated with them. But it's hard to tell what the alleged problem or misconduct is. I emphasize alleged because I assume the nonpublic ones were ones in which the lawyer was not found "guilty". In my state, the Bar will only investigate prosecutors if the court has already issued a statement determining prosecutorial misconduct occurred. So prosecutors get off without scrutiny most of the time.

[nisegami]

>Court records are public to prevent secret government courts from abusing people

Except of course, when "national security" is involved.