[syshum]

>>You'd pay the new battery money after saving on gas for 12 years.

How do you figure? For example lets look at my buying pattern

Some One leases a new Vehicle... 3-4 years later they return it, that is when I come in, I buy a Lease Return almost every time. I keep that for 5-6 years. At which point I sell or trade for another lease return. the car is typically about 9-10 years old at that point. Someone Buys this from me or the dealer then 2 years later is hit with a $16,000-$20,000 bill

People do not normally keep a car for 12 years... So you would not have "saved" for 12 years

>Those statistics typically use a very misleading definition of 'afford'.

It is not really, as it is based on cash savings of a person to incur the expense with out using debt. If we are talking about a $16-20,000 expense on a 12 year old car, it is unlikely anyone will finance that expense has it would exceed the cars resell value. No lender is going to give you a loan to replace the battery. This problem exists today with many hybrids.

[Dylan16807]

> it is based on cash savings of a person to incur the expense with out using debt

When you use debt every day, it doesn't matter very much whether you put an unexpected expense on debt. What matters is how fast you'd pay that off. If it will be gone in a couple months, that's afforded. And that's a lot of people when it comes to sudden hundreds-of-dollars expenses.

> No lender is going to give you a loan to replace the battery.

You can get a loan to buy a car, why not a battery for a car? I expect it to become possible as these things become more common.

> it is unlikely anyone will finance that expense has it would exceed the cars resell value.

Once you put in a new battery pack, won't the value go up a lot?

And basically every new car becomes worth significantly less than the loan value in the first week. This isn't a new problem.

> the car is typically about 9-10 years old at that point. Someone Buys this from me or the dealer then 2 years later is hit with a $16,000-$20,000 bill

If they've only had the car for 2 years then they've barely lost any capacity. Would they even need to replace it so soon?

But if we look at it in simple terms and say the battery is 80% dead, then shouldn't the part of the car's value represented by the battery be reduced by $14k when they buy it? Either way the answer is to consider 80% of a battery as part of the price, just like any other worn out parts a used car might have.

[syshum]

>And basically every new car becomes worth significantly less than the loan value in the first week. This isn't a new problem.

Actually it is, that is why most lenders require you to have Gap Insurance in addition to liability on a new Car Loan

Now i suppose "battery" insurance could also emerge as a new product, but hat really do not change my position any

>If they've only had the car for 2 years then they've barely lost any capacity. Would they even need to replace it so soon?

Are you not following the conversation? Or do you believe every time the car is resold the battery is going to be replaced?

In my hypothetical, a person buys a 10Year old car, then 2 years later they need a battery replacement costing more than the car is worth. They have only had the car for 2 years, but the battery did not magically become new when the car was resold.

> Either way the answer is to consider 80% of a battery as part of the price

The open question is if this can be accurately predicted, sure if you can pull up a report and with 99% percent accuracy show the wear level of the battery that may not be an issue.

My understanding however that this is a "best guess" and is not very accurate and predicting when a battery will actually fail, the health monitor of battery pack far from being as exact as you seem to make it out to be.

[Dylan16807]

> Actually it is, that is why most lenders require you to have Gap Insurance in addition to liability on a new Car Loan

Actually it is... what?

I said it's not a new problem.

And you can use the same solution: get $3k of gap insurance on your new battery.

> but hat really do not change my position any

Why doesn't that change your position? You're saying it's hard to save up that much money, but if you can finance it like a car purchase then you don't need to save up that much money.

> Are you not following the conversation? Or do you believe every time the car is resold the battery is going to be replaced?

I am following.

I was suggesting that batteries don't usually outright fail. If you start with a vehicle at 75% of original range, you don't care as much that it dropped to 70% of original, and you could continue to ride that battery down the slope.

> The open question is if this can be accurately predicted, sure if you can pull up a report and with 99% percent accuracy show the wear level of the battery that may not be an issue.

If batteries are completely failing without much warning then that's probably a job for insurance? But you need enough people to start having that problem before that product will exist. I doubt we'll reach a point where it's a widespread problem and no insurance is available either.

But even if you can't measure the specific battery, if they've used it an average amount for 10 years, and most batteries last 12 at that use, then it should still cause a huge discount.