[rnk]

Russia said don't join Nato or we'll destroy you, Ukraine. And then Russia attacks Ukraine anyway. So what would be different if Georgia, Ukraine, and the other smaller democratic survivors of the USSR join NATO? Russia will still want to attack them.

Edit - one more thing, Russia said it threatens us if NATO is right next door to us in Ukraine. So Russia wants to take over Ukraine, and they'll be right next door to NATO in Poland. They were already right next door to NATO.

[filomeno]

> Russia said don't join Nato or we'll destroy you, Ukraine. And then Russia attacks Ukraine anyway

They wanted some guarantee that Ukraine would remain a neutral country, and the response they got was that Ukraine was going to join NATO. Even more, NATO's secretary general said not only Ukraine can join NATO, but also, NATO's presence in eastern Europe was to be strengthened. If that was meant to avoid a military conflict, I think they were very wrong.

[drran]

RF is aggressor in Ukraine since 2014, but RF cannot win over Ukraine, thus RF has constant fear of losing the war with Ukraine, so they are so sensitive to any military or political help to Ukraine. Yes, RF wants for their target to be alone, while Ukraine don't want to be at 1:1 war with a much larger opponent.

[yonaguska]

Yep, I don't want to sound like a Putin apologist, but everything seems to point to Western escalation in this respect.

[nullifidian]

Independent countries joining defensive pacts is their internal business. Putin wants what he thinks is Russia's god ordained sphere of influence(imperialism), and what's more considers Ukraine as Russia's to rule(imperialism). Everything that was said, and different things were said to different audiences, were just distractions/post-decision excuses. It has nothing to do with defense, and everything to do with imperialism, and generations of indoctrination in it. Baltic states(already in NATO) are as close to Moscow as Harkiv. And defense wise Russia will be much weaker in the decades to come with an isolated economy. Putin wants a poor desperate and isolated North Korea like country, he doesn't want a prosperous Russia -- prosperity is not too compatible with authoritarianism.

[tscherno]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

[nullifidian]

People like to post this, but Dugin is mostly irrelevant in Russia, and I doubt he had any influence on Putin's decision making. Putin's imperialism is of his own biographical origins.

[Ambix]

Exactly. And there still many people shocked by NATO'1999 bombarding of Serbia.