[oblio]

The US ousted Allende in 1973, almost 50 years ago. During a Cold War with an enemy that large groups of people - including their allies! - truly considered a pox upon humanity.

The US withdrew from Afghanistan and Iraq, ending mistakes made almost 20 years ago.

Russia attacked Ukraine 2 days ago.

So we should follow the model of the current day aggressor, not of the country that's at least trying to change its ways?

[EGreg]

Which country is trying to change its ways? In the last 20 years we have destroyed or severely impacted Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, contributed to the rise of ISIS and Boko Haram and Muslim Brotherhood, having an effect countless small tribes like Yezidis, and that’s just the middle east, 3000 miles away

[oblio]

The US withdrew from all of those places.

And how is all of this relevant in a discussion about Russia attacking Ukraine, anyway?

[EGreg]

Extremely relevant. Because Russia, China and USA are the three "regional powers" in the world (USA being a "superpower" meddling everywhere) so we need to avoid double standards in order for our discussion to convince anyone or come to a productive result. If we ignore when one country does it, while decrying when another country does it, to me that's just empty rhetoric and not really trying to solve the actual issues.

Some call this the Chomsky principle: "My own concern is primarily the terror and violence carried out by my own state, for two reasons. For one thing, because it happens to be the larger component of international violence. But also for a much more important reason than that; namely, I can do something about it. So even if the U.S. was responsible for 2 percent of the violence in the world instead of the majority of it, it would be that 2 percent I would be primarily responsible for. And that is a simple ethical judgment. That is, the ethical value of one’s actions depends on their anticipated and predictable consequences. It is very easy to denounce the atrocities of someone else. That has about as much ethical value as denouncing atrocities that took place in the 18th century." - Noam Chomsky

[oblio]

Problems are best solved one at a time. And they're best solved in the present or for the near or far future.

Nobody can fix the past, just apologize for it.

Right now we need to fix Ukraine.