[Day1]

What doesn’t make sense is a resistance to Russia in Ukraine. Ukrainians supporting a hopeless defense against Russia absolutely will die for no reason but their own. They need to flee if Russia will not give them an option to surrender.

[necovek]

Nationalistic sentiment (fatherland, my people, my country, patriotism...) has been carefully nurtured since the rise of the nation states in the late 19th century Europe. So people are conditioned to die in the name of pride.

It's the reason we are seeing any conflict in Europe since WW2: if we decided that people can easily self-proclaim independence with a majority vote (under certain democratic principles) without regard for imaginary borders of countries post-WW2, any pretext for recent conflicts in Europe would be gone.

Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo, Donbas would have been split into multiple tiny independent countries, but just maybe, we'd avoid any need for war.

Conditions have to be reasonable and fair for all sides (eg. investment from other parts of the country should be repaid as if they were a loan; if they are pulling significant natural resources, remaining parts should be "compensated"; bigger parts should guarantee freedom of movement for people and goods so no crazy visas and tariffs...).

I, for one, don't see anything natural in insisting on imaginary lines on the map, or in ignoring millenia of history where states have joined and separated repeatedly in different arrangements. UN should step up the game and turn into United People, and we can move towards a more reasonable peaceful future.

[QuarterReptile]

Maybe they'll manage to hold on long enough that Europeans/Americans will decide it's a cause worth fighting for.

Or, less high-minded, maybe the Estonians/Latvians/Lithuanians will finally be able to convince the rest of the NATO of the blindingly obvious fact that the next invasion is coming for the Baltic states (NATO) to reconnect Kaliningrad and the Baltic Sea to Russia, and the response to this invasion determines when and if that happpens.

Maybe Ukraine will convince Pacific allies of the blindingly obvious fact that China is intently watching this to see if NATO (and so, it would follow, Pacific alliances) is the house of cards that many suspect it to be.

It's all out in the open now. Russia has attacked NATO (bombed a Turkish vessel) and invaded NATO (jointly-held Snake Island); the equivocating will be seen for exactly what it is. Whether the US should be getting involved in foreign wars is a question long in the past, when we made our alliances. Now, Taiwan, Eastern Europe, and probably the world's faith in US credit (dollars) are in the balance. It's not looking good.

[mytailorisrich]

Europeans and Americans will not directly intervene by sending troops to Ukraine.

Likewise, the US will never directly attack mainland China if they decide to invade Taiwan.