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by zionic 1575 days ago
They gave up those nukes with the promise we would protect them.

That trick of ours won’t work again.

3 comments

Was there a promise that the US would defend them?

I don't see that in the list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit...

What I do see is a promise made by both the US and Russia to "[r]efrain from the threat or the use of force against [...] Ukraine." So Russia definitely broke the promise, and I don't see where the US broke it.

We would protect them. If Russia nuked Kyev goodbye surface of the earth. Likewise if Ukraine still had nukes and sent one at moscow.
I'd be surprised if the USA started an all out nuclear war no matter what Russia did to Ukraine.
I could see it happening accidentally.
The US would not retaliate militarily if Russia used nuclear weapons against Ukraine. That is not part of US nuclear doctrine. Ukraine is not a treaty ally.
But they promised to protect the Ukraine. With the UK and China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit...
No, they promised to respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty. You literally linked it.
There are 6 things on the list. This one is the closest to promising to defend Ukraine:

>Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".

I don't know exactly what "Seek immediate Security Council action" means. What if the US seeks it and doesn't find it? Is that in compliance with the memorandum?

They did. Guess what happened? Vetoed by Russia.
# 1 Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.

#2 Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.

Both violated in the Krimean annexion 2014. Since Russia could easily violate this treaty, they could easily invade Ukraine now. And they got no weapons from signatories, only a few from the Baltics.

Treaties with these signatories are not worth the paper, otherwise Ukraine would have kept the nukes, and would have somehow got the codes also eventually.

You're absolutely dreaming. USA is not a reliable ally.
The premise is not just that nukes are a deterrent against nuclear warfare, but also that nukes are a deterrent against conventional warfare. I'm not sure any country except israel is super explicit about this (cf Samson Option) but presumably the implicit or quietly explicit threat is there.
It's funny, or maybe sad, how so many people did not see this coming. All the propaganda and social engineering to get Biden associated with Ukraine so that when he tried to throw his hat in the ring, his own country will be alarmed.

Going to end up looking like a fucking 9000 IQ play by Russia here, but hopefully the world proves me wrong.

If you pursue party of the internet susceptible to disinfo this is already what is being trotted out.

"Biden only wants to intervene because of Hunters business dealings!"