[throwaway392321]

> No, that is obviously not the only kind of value you can have. That is one. I am saying bitcoin has none of them.

Please elucidate me on the "kind of value" that cash or cash settled derivatives have, and that that bitcoin would not have.

> And, again, mathematically, bitcoin trading is negative sum. This has nothing to do with what the price is. It can go up, down, or stay the same. The game is still negative sum in the end.

The price is absolutely relevant. If the price were to only increase no one would ever realize a loss on an investment on bitcoin. (I don't think this has any chance of happening, I'm just illustrating why price does matter "mathematically").