[umvi]

People on HN often dismiss the "nothing to hide" argument as invalid when it comes to strong privacy rights, but... the fact remains that those who very much want to hide their illegal activities and ill-gotten gains are first in line to the banks/services with the strongest privacy guarantees (swiss banks, cryptocurrencies, e2e chat apps, etc).

It's a hard problem and I don't think saying "oh well, having human traffickers and terrorists use the service to enable their activities is just the cost of privacy rights" is going to fly any more than "oh well, having tons of criminals use guns for murder is just the cost of the second amendment" flies. The latter argument used to fly, but it's increasingly unpopular to say that these days, and I suspect the same will happen when it comes to services with strong privacy guarantees.

[jmyeet]

> ... are first in line to the banks/services with the strongest privacy guarantees (swiss banks, cryptocurrencies, e2e chat apps, etc).

I'm not sure why crypto got bundled in there because it's anything but private. The entire transaction history is public. That's kind of the point. Look at tainted Bitcoins [1] and the couple caught trying to launder the Bitfinex Bitcoins [2].

Crypto is not private by design.

[1]: https://cipherblade.com/blog/tainted-bitcoin-isnt-what-you-t...

[2]: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/13/nyregion/bitcoin-bitfinex...

[crtasm]

> Crypto is not private by design.

Bitcoin is not the only cryptocurrency:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monero

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zcash

[umvi]

> I'm not sure why crypto got bundled in there because it's anything but private

It's pseudonymous, which is similar to private. As long as you don't allow your pseudonym (wallet id) tied to your real identity, you can do all sorts of naughty stuff and get away with it.

[ls15]

The worst apples will always find a way to protect their privacy, while the innocent majority of people is having their privacy invaded against their best interests.

[lokalfarm]

Do you use HTTPS? SSH? A password manager?

Everyone has something to hide -- it is a matter of how much and from who(m). In our world of Big Data/surveillance capitalism, I don't see how you could even argue against stronger privacy rights...

[missedthecue]

I have SSH on my servers for the same reason I have locks on my house. Not because I have stuff to hide, but because having stuff stolen costs me money, and SSH and locks are an inexpensive way of preventing stuff of mine from being stolen

[lokalfarm]

Sounds an awful lot like privacy:

1. the state of being apart from other people or concealed from their view; solitude; seclusion

2. the state of being free from unwanted or undue intrusion or disturbance in one's private life or affairs; freedom to be let alone

I don't draw a distinction between "your house" and "your data." Whatever your rational for having those barriers - that's your decision, right? Just because other people enjoy living on communes doesn't make it any less absurd for a country to outlaw locks on doors (or e2e chat apps...). Taken even further, people tend to do horrific things (sexual &/or domestic abuse) behind locked doors. But plenty of other people, like you & me, tend to sleep better behind them.