[bullen]

Ok, interesting that you think anything in life is voluntary. We'll see how history judges the affair, in my experience the only way to disseminate truth is to close down the forum where arguments are held: previously books, now the internet.

NATO is responsible for accepting memberships and keeping their promises, and we are responsible for consuming other peoples energy: mostly our own childrens enegy.

Either way, the only way to avoid conflict is by living frugally. So that holds no matter what.

To think that defence can't be offensive is plain wrong. Do you remember the Cuba crisis?

[0ldskool]

you mean that crisis that should have been called the Turkey missile crisis? Wasn't the main cause because USA put missiles so close to USSR that they could bypass the early warning system. USSR was just reacting in response.