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by ucm_edge 1581 days ago
Same experience over the past couple years.

It's also weird to me, for example I bought six items from Leatherman (some multitools plus accessories) and one of them showed up with some damage. No worries, Leatherman supports their product with a 25 year warranty so I just mail it back for a repair.

There was a whole saga about Leatherman refusing via email and my bank charging back for the entire order (I asked for just the tool that Leatherman refused to repair, the bank was "Nah, we're just gonna do it all, we have an email where the merchant refused to honor a warranty, they have no leverage.")

It's bizarre to me, because a relatively minor repair had to be cheaper than giving me three multitools and six accessories for negative dollars (since the bank tosses fees on top of the chargeback). The companies have no incentive and know they're going to lose (see all the articles complaining about 'friendly fraud' to reference chargebacks) yet they do it.

Perhaps they over index on being paranoid that the customer wants to defraud them via chargeback, which in turn increases the odds a chargeback happens since the disgruntled customer feels they were ripped off?

6 comments

>It's bizarre to me, because a relatively minor repair had to be cheaper than giving me three multitools and six accessories for negative dollars (since the bank tosses fees on top of the chargeback). The companies have no incentive and know they're going to lose (see all the articles complaining about 'friendly fraud' to reference chargebacks) yet they do it.

From where I'm sitting (business owner who handles my own customer support), this seems like a classic case of the business's incentives not aligning with the employee's.

Minor complaints are often much harder to deal with (and care about) than major ones, and far more likely to explode into something nasty. Couple that with the fact that the support rep doesn't see a cent of that transaction, and I can see why they would want to shut down the interaction ASAP.

The support rep is following a script cooked up to follow a directive from an MBA. Support is a cost center, subject to optimization for P&L. Reputation isn't in the analysis so the customer hostile solution is best.
Exactly. The rep gets yelled at for a “cost” repair. He gets no telling about a chargeback, that’s eaten somewhere in finance.
Oh wow it's the guy that built the open source dog USB Oscilloscope! Great product :)

I'm surprised that you have to do your own customer support, though. I had always assumed that Crowd Supply would take care of that.

Labrador is my side project; my main business is actually in used video games down here in Aus. :)

I think Crowd Supply handle certain support issues specific to orders through their platform (as does Amazon), but there's still technical information that people need/want and so I help where I can.

> It's bizarre to me, because a relatively minor repair had to be cheaper than giving me three multitools and six accessories for negative dollars (since the bank tosses fees on top of the chargeback). The companies have no incentive and know they're going to lose (see all the articles complaining about 'friendly fraud' to reference chargebacks) yet they do it.

For every person that does a chargeback, 10 of them don't know or don't bother. A lot of companies & services rely on that.

Oh man, Leatherman has really gone downhill in the last 10 years. My father's Leatherman is a solid tool that has withstood lots of abuse. I went through three doing light electronics repair (chipping the wire cutters, bending the hinge out of whack so it won't close all the way, busting the tip off a blade) before finally deciding to never buy another one.
I feel like practically all manufacturers have switched to cheaper metal alloys. For example, Fiskars scissors, garden shears, and such used to be a thing you buy once and use practically forever, now they're pretty much the same as anything that has any kind of brand on the packaging.
> "Nah, we're just gonna do it all, we have an email where the merchant refused to honor a warranty, they have no leverage."

From the bank's perspective, this makes sense: better you keep your money with the bank than it flow out to the vendor.

I think it's less nefarious than that. The vendor did not fulfil their end of the contract, so the contract is voided and the money is transferred back. If the bank starts to go into do partial refunding they could suddenly be spending a lot more on this service.
Maybe the simply lack the manpower to do basic customer service and device repair?
I doubt so. When I bought my Leatherman Wave, the bundled leather pouch was a little too tight, and I emailed them about the issue. The response was "It's intentionally made that way. If it doesn't stretch to fit in a week or two, let us know and we'll send you a new one, for free. Have nice day and enjoy your tool".
I'm arguably not too involved in the US Customer Service industry ... but what prevents Leatherman to kill your credit score in that scenario?
The credit relationship is between you and your bank (or your credit card issuer), not Leatherman.
Leatherman's ultimate recourse would be take me to small claims court, argue I lied to the credit card processor to win the chargeback case, get a judgement, and if I don't pay go after me for collections. I doubt they'd have a good time given they sent me an email refusing to do a warranty repair and I based my chargeback on that.

Of course they'd have to come to my home jurisdiction and all that. While in theory if they prevailed I think they'd get triple damages, they also run the risk of losing and throwing away even more money and also angering Visa who considers my bank's ruling in my favor to be final. There were a few companies that had the genius idea to go to small claims and Visa got upset enough that those companies can no longer take credit cards.

In most cases it is better for the merchant just to eat it and write it off as a loss.