[asdff]

Most people don't have enough knowledge to form a relevant opinion on the things that matter to them, and to be fair most people really don't have the time to become experts in everything. For example, before most people understood the harmful effects of smoking, only the people who actually looked at health data were concerned, and their voices were also drowned out by the people who stood to gain enormous amounts of money by having a population addicted to cigarettes. The average person was probably happy to smoke, it makes them look younger after all like the ads they were exposed to tried to demonstrate.

I think in time social media and hostile web will be seen as a similar public health concern. It's already recognized in the data the ill effects on mental health that these dark patterns have on people, and the unprecedented power of manipulation made possible by social networks. It's hard right now because Facebook et al today are what Phillip Morris et al were then: powerful beyond belief due to extreme profit, lobbying, and regulatory capture.

I'm an optimist, so I hope eventually we have our surgeon general moment for social media and the hostile web, and expert voices are heard over those of the monied interests who lobby solely for the continuous growth of their cash cow.

[vpfaulkner]

I agree that, with time, I think/hope many people will realize social media actually has a lot of adverse effects.

However, to say, "most people will come to the same conclusion I have given enough time and evidence" seems a little naïve, and overlooks the spectrum of preferences that people have for the various things developers consider "hostile."

For example, while a lot of developers (myself included) love the minimalism of, say, Hacker News and hate the bloat of, say, nytimes.com, I think it's unfair to call nytimes "hostile" to the user. Frankly, it doesn't grate the typical user that much and the decisions made by NY Times designers/developers reflect that reality.

I think a similar argument can be made about privacy. Some people would pay for a product that is private and without advertisements; others are fine with the tradeoff.

[chrischapman]

> surgeon general moment

I get the impression that the GDPR is ushering in the surgeon general moment that you mention. It's slowly starting to improve the health of the web. The latest rulings may even finally kill the cookie banner. Hallelujah.