[ruuda]

Scott Alexander recently ran a grants program (https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/so-you-want-to-run-a-m...) and wrote this about the experience:

> Then you have to actually give people money. > > You know how, whenever there’s a debate about cryptocurrency, some crypto fanboy gushes about how it makes sending money so much easier? And if you’re like me, you think “yes, but right now you can just enter a number into Paypal, that already seems pretty easy to me”? > > I take it all back. The crypto future can’t come soon enough. Sending money is terrible. > > Paypal charges 2-3% fees. If you’re sending $50K, that’s a thousand dollars. Your bank might do wire transfers for you, but they have caps on how much you can send, and that cap may be smaller than your grant. Wires can involve anything from sending in a snail mail form, to going to the bank in person, to getting something called a “Medallion Signature Guarantee” which I still have not fully figured out. Sometimes a recipient would tell me their bank account details, and my bank would say “no, that account does not exist”, and then we would be at an impasse. If you have double (or God forbid, triple) digit numbers of recipients, it all adds up.

[kabes]

Blockchain only solves the issue of a distributed system without trust. None of the issues Scott mentioned are inherent to a centralized, trust based system. And some exist just as much in crypto space (wrong bank account number -> wrong wallet address and you also pay a fee for transfers)

[gls2ro]

It seems the core of this is that Paypal charges 3% and alternatives like banks don't work because either they are not allowed to transfer that much money or the recipient does not have an account.

Regarding the transfer cap, I really don't understand this. Is that a cap on personal transfers?

Regarding Paypal price, let me ask this: Is the 3% Paypal asks required costs o working with fiat currencies? NO.

Then that is that? That is the price Paypal asks for using their product. Is a price on a free market.

So how will this happen in the crypto space?

Will everybody know how to do transfer with crypto? Or will there appear some products that might charge a fee to facilitate the transfer? And if they will appear what stops them to add 3% fee?

If the answer is everybody will know how to keep a personal wallet and do transfers then the answer is probably wrong. People (outside our small IT bubble) don't want to learn complicated technologies so a nice product with a good UX might appear that will do what PayPal did for credit cards transfers and they will find a way to charge their users.

[melony]

The state (in the general sense, as in the federal government) wants to know where money comes from and where money goes to. Control over capital flow is one of the fundamental levers of modern day political power.

[D13Fd]

You can say that and it sounds intellectual, but the government’s real interest is in collecting taxes and preventing crime.

If you’re not trying to avoid legally-owed taxes or commit crimes, these things can all be done by traditional means.

[kcindric]

Crypto has its own charges, i.e. Eth GAS Fees[0]

[0] - https://www.coindesk.com/learn/what-are-ethereum-gas-fees/

[jokethrowaway]

Bank transfers are free in several countries in the UK and in Europe.

I can even get free (both personal and business) bank accounts.

[elric]

They are free in the entire SEPA (for personal use, up to some number of transactions, within the SEPA in EUR).

Free bank accounts are becoming pretty rare, unfortunately. Give it a couple of years and they'll be extinct :-(

[kwhitefoot]

High transaction cost is not inherent in the technology of bank transfers. Within Europe it's all electronic and my bank in Norway charges less than 1% for an international transfer.

[cja]

Doesn't Transferwise work in the US?