[verisimi]

I hear you. Sorry you think its a shallow view! but I thank you for your thoughts. I have done some plumbing of my own - I can personally verify that I never felt comfortable - always contorted!

Managers/foremen etc are asses the world over. I was really addressing the work. And I thought I picked a pretty unpleasant example in dirty toilets!

I contrast the work you do with work I have done. I was making a moral point.

I have worked in financial and other institutions. I really see no value in what I have contributed. If I achieved something, its that the shareholders of those institutions were happier in being able to squeeze a bit more life-force for themselves from others. I helped the fat cats get a little fatter.

BTW - I think you wreck your body sitting in front of a machine all day. I accept that coding is not as overtly dangerous though!

[lokalfarm]

> I helped the fat cats get a little fatter.

I think that is just the way of the world, especially in America. Even though I have worked in fields that produce a more "tangible" product, I can't say that I have contributed or helped much of anything. And now I'm in my 30s without an education and I only have experience doing things that I never want to do again.

Bosses are always terrible, but it's a little different when your life is literally at stake. I've had "old school" foremen who want to sit and call you a pu$$y because you don't want to stand (without a harness) on a flimsy piece of wood over a six story shaft, cutting and then brazing 8" copper pipe. It's also harder when you don't have dedicated recruiting networks and the ability to WFH like many do in tech/SWE.

(Just my perspective! I appreciate the discussion.)

[verisimi]

I for one fancy doing something totally different - producing some of my own food, in a more natural environment. No deferred joy - more immediacy, living closer to nature, etc. Your user name makes me wonder if you would find that more fulfilling too? :)

[lokalfarm]

Have you considered taking some time off and going WWOOFing? It can be a fun experience.

Personally, I believe that knowing how to navigate this (increasingly) digital world is an essential skill. I'm enjoying trying to build foundational knowledge about computing & networking for these reasons - and I also just feel like there is _so much_ to learn, and that is both exciting and overwhelming at times. I have some negative views towards the way technology has trended in the last decade or two (bordering on tin-foil hat territory :P) but I think that is all the more reason to understand it.

I don't have any interest in pursuing SWE, esp. for financial reasons. But I am enjoying learning about programming. I'd be happy if I could hack on things at home & contribute to some OSS projects. I'm hoping to land a junior position at a NOC in a year or so, but who knows? I've given up on the idea of any career giving my life meaning or purpose, so I'd be happy with an education + skillset that makes me employable, especially with remote opportunities. Not having to destroy my body is a bonus!