After spending most of my adult life in Germany, I have to be extra-vigilant when doing anything with money back in the US - from remembering that the prices on the shelves are several percent lower than what I’m actually going to have to pay (while being way lower than VAT, sales tax is not included in prices!) to anything to do with cellphones, and then stuff like this.
On the other hand, after growing up in the US I have to do the same when shopping in Germany or Switzerland. It’s almost unheard of for stores here to offer compensation such as a refund or exchange for many situations commonplace in the US, and many customer service interactions for other things like a phone bill have exhibited stubbornness to arbitrary policies that borders on hostility IMO.
I’m not sure sales tax excluded from prices is a matter of vigilance if it’s a nearly-universal national norm. It’s a bit like someone from the US complaining about being charged for bottled water at a restaurant in Spain after assuming they’d receive free tap water.
Yeah, I understand. It's definitely not ideal and I don't want to sound like I'm condoning it because it really should be improved. I'm just not sure there's an obvious solution given the US/Canadian regional/local autonomy over sales taxes, but I'm glad to hear ideas. Most towns in California, for instance, have their own sales tax rates and while this could obviously be accommodated in retail spaces (at the cost of confusing national advertising?) it makes displaying prices rather complicated on online marketplaces which currently add taxes once a shipping address is entered during the checkout process. In contrast, despite the reasonable regional autonomy in Switzerland (not too dissimilar from states in the US) a national VAT rate avoids this issue.
The obvious exception is for marketplaces that sell to other markets. For instance, the prices on Amazon.de (Germany) change if a Swiss shipping address is entered due to the different VAT rate.
What's so alarming about us not putting sales tax on products? I grew up in the US but in a non sales tax state so my experience until I was 25 was the same as yours. When I later moved to a sales tax state I knew the price was going to be ~5-10% higher than what was printed but I got used to it very quickly.
I hate to stereotype but I've found Germans in my experience to take particular offense to this practice. I'm married to someone from the UK and British people complain about this as well but probably only 1/10 as much. I feel like if I asked most Germans their least favorite thing about the US this is would be the MOST common response. I don't get it.
How can you not get it? It's completely annoying - stores show a price that is not the real price. So I have to now look up what is the sales tax before I can make an informed decision.
You may be fine with it if you live there and have learned to instinctively add 9% - but to a foreign traveler, one doesn't even know what percent they should add! _Of course_ it's annoying.
P.S. I am not German.
edited to add: It's just like the insane tipping culture in US. If you don't tip, somehow _you_ are the monster. It's not a problem that restaurants don't pay a living wage, it's not a problem that they don't even have to pay the minimum legal wage (!!!) - no, the problem is not with America. It's with the monsters that don't tip, because how else are those poor servers going to survive? Basically, when you look at the price in a US menu, you have to remember that the real price is at least 130% of that. And somehow, americans seem to be fine with it, and consider that it's the foreigners that are the oddballs here.
Do note, I don't have a problem with tipping, and I do tip even in my country, quite generously so sometimes (e.g. 50% at barbershops because I feel their prices are just too low, and also the person providing the service is actually doing most of the work too). But I don't like being forced to do it. It's one thing to tip as a sign of "thank you, good job!"; and it's a completely different feeling to tip as "here, this will give you something to eat this month"
It's a real-life dark pattern. The benefits of showing the price with taxes for consumers vastly outweigh the minor problems for stores, other than makes them look cheaper.
A few percent higher prices aren't as much of a deal when paying with credit card, the transaction works exactly the same, but when paying cash, it might look very different (up to "don't actually have enough with me. oops.")
This stands to reason, credit card use in the UK is very high. So high in fact I recall several times before I had a chip card having trouble paying at cashless kiosks.
I don't know how many of the dark patterns I don't get to see as an EU user (not that I want to see them), but there are plenty still there: only showing positive reviews or stressing the positive features of an accommodation ("very quiet" because it's in the middle of nowhere etc.), pressuring you into booking by showing accommodations that are already fully booked, showing how many users are allegedly looking at the same offer "right now", showing that they only have 0.5 rooms left etc. etc. etc.
Yes indeed - I'm a pretty frequent user from Germany and I have used the free cancellation feature a few times without trouble. You can tell that it's real from the fact that offers with free cancellation, especially when close to the arrival date, are a few percent more expensive ;)
This is true, but I remember reading an article where the journalist compared the "only X rooms left with these conditions" claim to the system of the given hotel in real time. Well, as it turned out, the hotel had more than X free rooms with those conditions allocated to booking.com...
Booking doesn't care, though. They'll happily overbook the rooms you assign them sometimes.
Edit: It might have gotten better since, but I still remember all those sad/defeated/angry faces of people who had booked trough Booking.com that I had to send away / find alternative hotels for because we were full. Back then when.
I had that in Asia quite a lot with Booking; that's not my problem though; it's theirs. But that's why I do not use them (booking) whenever I can prevent it. Hotels.com has this rarely but when they have it, they make sure you are well taken care off; I got much better and far more expensive hotels for the same price in those cases. I discovered ny favorite hotel in the world (so far) by a double (double double; the overbooked twice for the same room) booking; everything was full so they booked me in a hotel in the middle of a nature reserve which was much more expensive at that point, but I paid nothing more of course. Very nice for a business trip where I was supposed to sleep in a concrete bunker in a city.
I understood that airlines and hotels have a tiered system fist x at this rate next y and rate*y … etc
I have booked directly with Marion and IHG last minute and they both had prices change the next day when I took a peak.
Assuming the thread isn’t about some random number generator
Beware, Marion had a higher price after I visited trivago
How so? Afaik you don't even have proper laws for normal online purchasing returns. It's kinda hard to believe that in this section the US somehow managed to actually protect their people better than Europe.
> It's kinda hard to believe that in this section the US somehow managed to actually protect their people better than Europe.
Well, I don't know what to tell you. For instance, in the US you have 24 hours to cancel a flight booking for any reason if booked more than 7 days out. In Europe, you might get a 4 hour window if you're lucky, but often times not (especially with the vicious European LCCs).
I would tend to agree with this. I’ve rarely received a refund or other compensation at least in Switzerland (not in the EU) for things that would immediately be handled in the US, particularly for retail purchases. The Costco and Amazon effect is far more prominent in the US whereas I feel much more constrained as a consumer in many European countries.
I've lived in NY, CH and UK (where I'm from) and think Switerland is the odd one out in this respect.
Quality of life is highest in most respects there, but only really so long as you're happy to go along with things and not rock the boat. Get paid well, enjoy the contryside, but know your place were the vibes I got ha.
For the first 6 months, the legal assumption is that any defect was present at purchase which means - in practice - you can return pretty much any defective item no questions asked.
I personally prefer the EU setup, but I can explain what the GP is talking about.
Back when I was in the US, I could have bought a wetvac from a major chain store, shampoo my carpets, then returned it for a full refund. It would have been a fully functioning item that I gained beneficial use from, but the store would still take the used item back and return all my money.
This comes with a huge caveat. It’s a semi-official store policy, but not a legally binding requirement. If the manager doesn’t like you, then you’re on your own. Granted, the manager doesn’t care that much, because they’re just going to put the used wetvac and sell it to someone else. That person might discover that I broke the unit and they legitimately can’t use it. However, if they don’t have the same magic sprinkles I have (e.g. a title, a midwestern accent, white skin), the store might decide not to give them a refund, even though I’m the one that broke the appliance in the first place.
Since leaving the US, I haven’t had a store try to unload used merchandise on me and I like that I don’t have to put on a performance to get a refund on faulty items, but I’ve encountered other expats who found it a culture shock.
Most instances were in Switzerland as I mentioned, although a few were in the EU. Some weren't defective items but rather unneeded items. Returns based on changing one's mind, even if the item is in unused condition and remains re-sellable, seems to not be a "thing" in at least several European countries whereas American consumers typically expect these consumer protections not by law but by convention.
Another electronic device was defective, and even after selecting this in the online purchase return form I was charged a restocking fee despite returning the item within a few weeks of purchase. Not budging on this and refunding the fee would be unheard of for any serious US retailer.
You have, by law, two weeks to return any item you bought online for any reason whatsoever, and you have 6 months essentially "no questions asked" return for defective items - on top of the actual warranty periods (that, again, are by law).
As far as conventions go, I check some larger retailers from Europe, like Zalando, and they offer a 100 day return policy [1] by convention.
Zalando is famously an exception in multiple countries I’ve been in, to the extent that some shop there because of their lenient return policies. I’m not sure how unique Switzerland is here. It seemed relatively similar in Germany, for instance.