[warrenm]

The hardest "engineer" to find "nowadays" is the same as it was 10, 20, 40, 100 years ago: the one who can communicate what [s]he wants to do in a way that non-engineers can grok

And, the flipside of that: the one who can take what [s]he is given in magic, hand-waving, bafflegab statements from non-engineers and convert it into something someone else can actually use

If you can communicate to and understand from others what you want to do and what they want, you're going to get hired

Every

Dang

Time

[giantg2]

That's not my experience.

I'm consistently told that communication is my strong point, that I'm good at interpreting statements into wanted functionality, and that my professional opinions are very thorough and well-thought out.

I'm told I'm slow. When I do code screens, usually in a language that I have limited experience in due to my diverse background in technologies, I don't get the job because others are faster.

[28304283409234]

I feel you pain. And whenever I do get hired, after 6 months, I have a deeper understanding of the architecture than most of those "fast" coders.

I'm a diesel. But that's not what gets you through jobinterviews nowadays.

[dieselgate]

Appreciate the diesel analogy!

[warrenm]

>I'm a diesel

Low RPM, loads of torque?

I'd hire that!

[MattGaiser]

Especially since you tend to interview for your next role. You don’t earn it through good job performance.

Beyond learning new technical skills, how I perform in my current role probably will not impact what comes next.

I’m considered by many to be a clear writer. I would happily trade that skill for leetcode.

[Wiseacre]

Ah the never ending difference between what employers say they want and what they actually want.

[giantg2]

It's not even reading between the lines. I ace my behavioral and/or conceptual sections. Then I fail the code screen for being too slow. I know they want fast people - they all do. That just leaves people like me in a shitty position, questioning what I should do with my professional life since the first 10 years have been a waste.

[wnolens]

This is my experience too.

[wnolens]

> you're going to get hired

I disagree. The hiring process is never interested in your version of the hardest engineer to find.

It's 1. pedigree then 2. "pass this coding challenge" then 3. some soft assessment of how "down for the cause" you are (will you work extremely hard and not quit so easily).

I haven't seen an exception, and I've interviewed widely and been the interviewer at multiple places (given a rubric of what to assess).

[PaulHoule]

I do these technology-based art projects and it is a struggle to explain them.

When it all works people see something small that they relate to, but behind that is a set of practices that aren't obvious and that often I got to by a roundabout route. Frequently I discover these practices instead of invent them and there is a big element of circularity which makes it hard to put together a story that has just the essential elements in the right order, trying to explain things chronologically is just about the worst I can do.

The answer to that is doing it over and over again, doing a better job each time, and occasionally having the breakthrough where you can put things in a new relationship that makes a lot of sense.

[warrenm]

If I were you, I'd do write-ups of my process - or at least what I was trying to accomplish, what I did accomplish, what I tried that didn't work, and how I [eventually] got there

That said, you don't need to be able to give your entire life story in 17 minutes flat - but communicating is absolutely the most vital interpersonal skill there is!

[devKnight]

In my so far short career this has been my experience as well. Though communication is something that we really don't think about very often.

[edmcnulty101]

> Converting from Business people's idiot speak to actual technical spec

Isn't that what a.Business Analyst does?

[giantg2]

That's my belief. At my company we don't have them (or I would be applying to those roles). It's seems most companies know they can save money by combining that with the developer role. I don't see postings for them.

[edmcnulty101]

To be honest engineers's earn so much because they're doing multiple jobs. They're also usually doing project management if there's no dedicated project manager.

[giantg2]

I would agree, if I were making 6 figures. I'm DevSecOps, so I'm definitely doing multiple things. I don't earn "so much".

[edmcnulty101]

DevSecOpsBizProj is prob more like it.

Hope you get a position in the future that pays you what you're worth.

[giantg2]

"DevSecOpsBizProj" lol it never ends

[antisthenes]

At this point, you're sitting there wondering if you should be working for yourself.

[warrenm]

Just because a Business person gives a description in non-technical-eze doesn't make him/her an idiot

It means you're not yet fluent in their language

[warrenm]

>Isn't that what a.Business Analyst does?

Not if you have any sense as an engineer :)

[edmcnulty101]

I love letting a Biz Analyst handle that. It's a nice luxury.

I get a nice spec delivered to me to code. instead of translating from business people who don't even know what they want? Yes please.

[warrenm]

I hate letting the Biz Analyst "handle that"

All too often, the "spec" a BizAn tries to hand over is nothing resembling a "spec", and instead just a bunch of word vomit I have to take back to the original source(s) and ask them to explain everything they wasted hours explaining to the "analyst" because the "analyst" didn't analyze anything - they just reformatted what the enduser(s) said into a standardized form

[el_don_almighty]

Engineers who cannot write, work for those who do.