[xhevahir]

>Atheists don't derive their morals from these stories, that's the difference.

The notion that atheists--or Christians, for that matter--ground their moral reasoning in first principles, completely free of unexamined assumptions and social convention, is so laughable that I'm amazed anyone here is seriously suggesting it.

[nautilius]

Wow, you destroyed that strawman!

[xhevahir]

If that's a straw man, then what would a more charitable interpretation of your comment look like?

[nautilius]

There is zero overlap between your comment and the quote you provide, so I wouldn't even know where to start fixing your comment.

[xhevahir]

Then what do you mean by your remark about how atheists "derive" their moral beliefs? rayiner's comment was about the religious origins of certain beliefs and their persistence in Western societies--not about whatever explicit justification contemporary atheists or believers might offer for those beliefs. In your comment you seem to be disregarding the former question to focus attention entirely on the latter.

[nautilius]

I don't write at all about how Atheists derive their moral beliefs, I don't know what you are referring to - show me, if you can.

I also don't write about how Atheists would justify (religious) beliefs - and why would atheists have to justify religious beliefs? Now that is laughable. The whole point of Atheism is to no longer rely on beliefs, much less having or feeling the urge to justify other people's beliefs.

Also, rayiner doesn't write about that at all. What they claim is that the fact that certain cultural customs prove the original Christian origin and persisting influence of Christianity of these customs, ignoring that sitting around a pine tree with your family and celebrating that days are finally getting longer predates Christianity by hundreds or, more likely, thousands of years.

Rayiner in their reply to my post completely ignored that the whole point of my post was about 'cultural legacy' vs 'organized religion', so I don't feel particularly bad that you think I did not address their comment enough. Also, I can't change that they are hijacking the thread to praise Christianity over Arabs.

[xhevahir]

It's late, but for the sake of thoroughness...

I should explain that I meant belief in a very ordinary sense of the word. As in, I believe capital punishment is wrong, or, Mike doesn't believe in the existence of aliens.

>What they claim is that the fact that certain cultural customs...

rayiner argued that the "cultural legacy" of Christianity is about more than just custom. They're saying that certain values--equality, moral universalism--are widely and deeply held throughout the modern, secular West, and that those values (or rather the great weight that Westerners assign to them) are a legacy of Christianity.

It's not a ridiculous position. Plenty of serious thinkers have argued along similar lines--Nietzsche, Weber, Foucault, Charles Taylor, Marcel Gaucher, Ivan Illich. No doubt there are lots more.