[macintux]

One difference: Apple is far more developer-hostile (or end-user friendly depending on your perspective) than Google, so someone like Facebook would be heavily incentivized to open their own iOS App Store and tell their users they must install that app from their store, in order to bypass constraints Apple enforces via their store.

[kelnos]

Why is that a problem, though? If we assume that the Facebook, Instagram, and Whatsapp apps all have some levels of good behavior and bad behavior, then we can probably assume that the "Meta App Store" would be similar. So what's the big deal if they require you to install it?

They could also just offer direct app downloads from facebook.com, instagram.com, etc.

So what? This feels like a nothingburger to me. Given how sideloading is a much less pleasant experience on even Android (and we can expect Apple to do worse), Facebook wouldn't leave the main App Store without an earth-shattering reason.

[NobodyNada]

Apple’s App Store has very strict privacy rules. Last year Apple implemented the App Tracking Transparency requirements, which Facebook says will cost them $10B in lost revenue this year [0]. If sideloading becomes a thing, I can definitely see Facebook requiring it in order to get around these privacy rules.

[0]: https://hothardware.com/news/facebook-claims-10b-revenue-hit...

[Apocryphon]

That's a dangerous gamble. The data tracking and privacy concerns aside, users are going to be mad at the additional friction that involves. They might get mad at Apple for making the enablement of sideloading an uneasy process (lots of disclaimers about how insecure it is, etc.), but they'll also get mad at Meta for pulling their apps off of the store for no discernible reason. Meta would have to offer more than the existing service they're getting from their current apps, to convince users to do this without losing goodwill.

[Jcowell]

One would argue that the app stores provides a benefit to the consumer that would not be implemented anywhere else since these benefits are not lucrative. One example is the ability to cancel subscriptions from one source, App Privacy Reports, seeing when an app is reading from the clipboard etc.

And no, entitlements mean nothing without enforcement.

[Jensson]

> One example is the ability to cancel subscriptions from one source

You pay 40% extra for that. The creator gets $100, Apple gets 40, you see $140 sticker price. It is a nice feature, but how many would pay 40% extra for that? And if many wanted to pay 40% extra for subscriptions to have them cancellable, I'm sure there would already be companies doing that.

[ccouzens]

> seeing when an app is reading from the clipboard

I expect that to be a operating system feature that works regardless of how the application was developed or installed.

[Jcowell]

Yes but there’s a difference between exploring and seeing it happen when it happens.

[keleftheriou]

What do you mean, exactly?

[osrec]

Developer hostile != End user friendly

[Jensson]

Developers creates things users wants, developer hostile is ultimately being user hostile when you are large enough. Being developer hostile can create gains short term, but that is mostly when you are a fringe, when dominant parties starts being developer hostile it starts hurting everyone as the tech sector as a whole becomes less effective.

[athrun]

Developers create things users wants, of course, but they also create things they want. Things like user tracking or data harvesting.

There's an inherent trade off here where adding safeguards to protect users will make the life of developers more difficult. Balancing these two concerns is hard.

I find that Apple mostly strikes the balance right, and so I choose to be their customer. People who disagree have other options available on the market today.

[osrec]

I guess I just like my tech stack to be as open and unrestrictive as possible.

The argument that Apple provides more safeguards is a bit flimsy in my opinion. I honestly don't know what people think Apple is protecting them from, especially when Apple's own features have led to people being stalked (air tags).

Also, most iPhone users that I know tend to have bought their iPhone for cosmetic/style related reasons, or the camera. They don't seem to be all that privacy conscious, especially when their phone is loaded up with every social media app on the planet, including Tiktok!

[athrun]

> I guess I just like my tech stack to be as open and unrestrictive as possible.

Note that this is another area where you have this user vs. developer trade off.

- GPL or other copyleft licenses will put the user's rights above the developer's.

- MIT or BSD-style licenses will favor the developer rights above the end user's.

"open and unrestrictive as possible" is all relative depending on whether you are a user or a developer.

> The argument that Apple provides more safeguards is a bit flimsy in my opinion.

My point is that this is a market where people value different things. I value the safeguards Apple is putting in. I find they do a better job at it than their competition. But I fully understand that other people do not think so, or that they value other things more.

What I don't particularly like is some of these people turning to the State to force Apple to do things differently.

[Apocryphon]

Incidentally, the iOS App Store forbids GPL apps.

https://www.fsf.org/news/2010-05-app-store-compliance

Maybe? Might have changed since then.

https://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/9500/is-apple...

One could imagine that if the platform was opened to side-loading, the first third party app store to gain popularity would not be one from Meta or Google, but an F-Droid analogue for FOSS hobbyists and purists.

[thetallstick]

> I honestly don't know what people think Apple is protecting them from

We've not seen iOS ransomware yet.

https://www.wired.com/story/android-ransomware-worrying-evol...

Although we have seen things that impersonate iOS ransomware.

https://medium.com/macoclock/ransomware-on-ios-a-clever-tric...

[scarface74]

So 60% of mobile phone users in the US bought their phones for “stylistic reasons”?

[heavyset_go]

It seems to me like many of these arguments boil down to "Boo, Facebook!" scare tactics.

[scarface74]

You mean the same Facebook that I bought a VPN provider so they could put spyware on users phones?

[Apocryphon]

Not to mention this past week sure has put that boogeyman into perspective.