[buscoquadnary]

If we talk at that level though there are lots of other terrible things at that level of crime. The alternative to capitalism, meaning private ownership of capital, is collective or state control of capital.

If we start talking about terrible things done by collectively or state owner endeavors we find things just as terrible like the holomdor, the 5 Year Leap. I mean don't get me wrong Apple is doing some seriously terrible things with their power grabs and monopolies, but I don't know if equates to 5 million dead of famine in 5 years, and although Google is violating my privacy and sucking up everyone's data I would prefer that over being loaded on a train to a concentration camp.

My point isn't to exonerate capitalism, because Nestle is a truly despicable company and have committed crimes of close to the same magnitude, but to believe that just changing the system is going to magically make everything better is in my opinion naive, because no matter how great you try and make your system if you fill it entirely with bad people it will result in bad outcomes.

Additionally we often find that during times of large scale change in "systems" it is more often than not the most ruthless, sociopathic, despotic individuals rise to the top because they are most willing to do whatever it takes to retain power. In contrast it seems like the activist investors that amass capital and attempt to force changes in company through monetary means is much less disruptive for the vast majority of people's lives.

EDIT: For some line breaks and missing word.

[mchaynes]

I don’t disagree, but fundamentally we need to remove the concept of complete “private ownership” in order to truly transfer power from the ultra powerful to the common people. If Mark Zuckerberg can still influence billions of people on a whim, then we haven’t fixed the fundamental problem. I don’t see a way to keep our system going and also give the people back the power they deserve. If there is a way, then sure let’s do it.

Those other governments had high concentrations of power at the top. They also stifled freedom of speech and freedom of assembly.

Too much power concentrated in one place is what causes horrible stuff. Serfs and Kings, Bureaucrats and common people, 1%’ers and poor people, etc.

It all comes down to concentrations of power.