[munk-a]

> Swiping pressure-sensitive paper over the raised numbers (the original method) is still possible

I've seen this still happen occasionally in taxis - or rather I saw it happen within the past decade. When I last lived in the states I'd bump into it especially with rural taxis - I assume it's dying quickly though because it's incredibly inconvenient when compared to paying via an app or tapping.

The lack of raised digits is actually a serious issue for legibility, I've had the digits fully rub off on some flat-printed cards - this may have been a low quality printing issue but either way I wouldn't applaud it being adopted since the raised numbers make it easier to read by eye.

[moron4hire]

I've had a lot of taxi drivers tell me they couldn't take credit cards at all. That is, until I tell them "I have no other way to pay, so I guess... later dude". Suddenly it's, "oh, oh, oh, the card reader is working again, look at that!"

[munk-a]

Whenever I get into an airport taxi I always mention "Oh you take credit card right?" due to the queue system at airports they either reply yes and, if they actually don't, I get out guilt free at the other end - or they reply no and I move to the next taxi down the line. A significant number of airport taxis do shady stuff to try and extract extra or under the table payment.

(Edit, just to clarify - I get out of the Taxi on the other end guilt free because the driver lied to me about payment options. I don't like skipping out on service payments - I think people should be paid fairly for the work they're doing (even if I could get away with not paying)... but if you're lying to me you're doing me a disservice)

[profmonocle]

This reminds of of when I was in Oslo back in 2014. We ordered food at a small restaurant after confirming they accepted credit cards. When it came time to pay, the woman behind the counter refused to scan our credit cards because they had no chips. (It would have worked, every other card terminal we'd used in the country still supported magstripe, and I saw that her machine had a scanner. She didn't say the reader was broken or anything, just refused to try.)

We didn't have cash, so we just left. The woman was furious. We hadn't received our food yet, but it was already being cooked. She screamed at us to go to an ATM a few blocks away, get cash, and come back. We just found another restaurant. If the card hadn't worked I would've felt bad and probably done that, but she wouldn't even try it. Don't advertise that you take credit cards and get mad when customers try to use them.

[lmm]

> It would have worked, every other card terminal we'd used in the country still supported magstripe, and I saw that her machine had a scanner. She didn't say the reader was broken or anything, just refused to try.

Just because the terminal has a magstripe reader on doesn't mean her merchant account provider accepts it. Plenty don't, or some transfer the liability to the store in that case.

> If the card hadn't worked I would've felt bad and probably done that, but she wouldn't even try it. Don't advertise that you take credit cards and get mad when customers try to use them.

In 2014 a card that doesn't have a chip might as well be broken. I don't think you can put this one on her.

[jjav]

> In 2014 a card that doesn't have a chip might as well be broken.

2014. I don't remember with 100% confidence, but I'm pretty sure none of my (many) credit cards had a chip back in 2014.

Stores here didn't even start installing chip reader card stations until ~2018 or so.

[lmm]

OK sure, but in 2014 in Norway a card without a chip might as well be broken. If I turned up to a restaurant where you are, asked if I could pay by card, ordered, and then busted out my UnionPay card and demanded they accept that, would you say that was reasonable?

[profmonocle]

> In 2014 a card that doesn't have a chip might as well be broken.

Chips were basically non-existent on US cards in 2014.

[munk-a]

That's true - but they were widespread pretty much everywhere else in the world including Norway. Up here in Canada we tend to say "Do you take interac?" instead of credit - but if credit is just the way people talk about chip-n-pin in Norway the understanding might be that walking into a store with a non-chip-n-pin card and asking for credit is dishonest.

I'm not Norwegian but it'd be pretty similar up here in Canada at this point - if your POS terminal gets damaged and your mag stripe reader breaks there isn't really a big reason to immediately shutter your store and replace it.

[CamperBob2]

And people wonder why Uber killed the whole taxi industry overnight.

[munk-a]

Well, in all fairness, Uber mostly killed the whole taxi industry by being really really illegal and not following any of the rules - including those meant for regulatory capture and those for safety. About 3000 women are sexually assaulted by Uber drivers every year - I'm not saying that doesn't happen with taxis too, just be careful about painting a too-rosy picture.

[girvo]

No one painted a too-rosy picture. They just pointed out that Uber killed Taxis because Taxis ran on horrible service plus a government mandated monopoly. Take away the latter like Uber did, and there’s no need to put up with the former.

[profmonocle]

I'm not sure how it was in the early days of Uber, but these days Uber does background checks on drivers, and IIRC they have for quite some time. Is there really any reason to believe that cab companies would do a better job of weeding out horrible people than Uber? I can't imagine they do much more than a background check.

[munk-a]

There is legal oversight and reporting required from conventional cab companies. And yes this was very much from the early days of Uber - when people cheered on the fact that they identified regulators and refused to book rides for them so they couldn't formally record violations.

[profmonocle]

Oh holy christ, I hadn't heard of them doing that. Doesn't shock me, sadly.

[aaronfitz]

They run the background checks, but they might not take any action on the result of them. A friend of a friend is a registered sex offender who drives for them. They stalled him for about 6 months, but ended up allowing him to drive when he was still willing to after the long delay.

[signatoremo]

Taxi in a lot of places, and I’ve been to many countries, don’t follow the rules either. Turn off meter, take long route, all the shady stuff, pretend to not understand foreigners

[dzhiurgis]

I've filled up gas once for the driver in Malaysia.

[scrollaway]

Cards are slowly moving towards not having printed numbers at all, and having the numbers only available via the issuer's app or website. This allows for rotating numbers.

[munk-a]

Rotating numbers are still extremely viable with fixed card numbers - it's possible to issue a set of semi-permenant printed numbers and also offer a tool that can issue additional digits for untrustworthy retailers or strange one-off payments. The removal of digits from the card itself is a cost being levied on the customer and it provides no real benefit.

[scrollaway]

Removal of digits reduces reissuances which are annoying for both issuer and customer.

[thasaleni]

Cards are moving towards no card at all i.e. virtual cards. USA is very slow in adopting new payment technology compared to the rest of the world. I live in South Africa and tap to pay is so much of a thing that you do not have to worry if you leave your card at home as you can tap at like 80% of the merchants, and if you can't they will have a fall back like QR code etc, NFC enabled cards have been around for years and all the merchants are really quick in adopting them.

[vxNsr]

Care to share some examples? I’ve never seen this in the US

[tialaramex]

In the UK my current debit card for my good bank is a flat black rectangle with the Mastercard Logo (overlapping circles) the name of the bank, the chip connector, and an arrow (for those with reasonable vision to determine correct orientation if they've never seen a chip before). From a Tactile point of view it has an indentation (orientation again) and a single Braille-like bump signifying "This is your debit card" (other cards may have more bumps).

On the back though it has a lot of details about the account, who I am, validity and so on, so all the same data is on the card, just not on the front and not embossed.

Current era bank cards aren't bright enough to change their numbers though, many of them are scarcely "smarter" than they were when they were completely passive, just barely enough going on to make it trickier to counterfeit them, not really any attempt to actually make that truly impossible for the majority of banks and customers. From the bank's point of view if they spend $5 per card to avoid $3 per card of fraud, they wasted $2 per card, and if half that fraud lands on the customer (because Mrs Smith didn't notice or the bank successfully prevented her claiming her money back and blamed her for the loss instead) they wasted $3.50.

[nsp]

Apple card is the only one I'm aware of

[gleenn]

The Apple credit card only shows the number if you reveal it in Apple Wallet app. Their card, technically run by Goldman Sachs, is all white with no numbers. Not sire how to verify but I've heard if you use it with Apple Pay I think it doesn't use that number, but a rotating one.

[pwinnski]

It can use a rotating number, I think, but when I tap my watch, any receipt with shows me the last four digits still shows me the same last four digits. Apple rotates the CVV, but not the card number so much.

[gleenn]

I thought the whole point of the rotation was to make it hard to track credit card purchases across stores etc. Just rotating the CVV is a nice security feature but definitely not that.

[vineyardmike]

Are you doing it with the Apple Card or just Apple Pay?

[pwinnski]

Good point! Almost always Apple Pay, not often the physical card.

[mastazi]

In Italy, debit cards have numbers that are not embossed (however they are slightly "engraved" i.e. the number forms a slight depression on the card - basically the opposite of embossing). IIRC I've seen the same in other EU countries. I now live in Australia and in my experience, here all cards are embossed, no matter if they are credit or debit cards.

[softveda]

Most new cards that I have seen in Australia doesn't have embossing, they have flat surface. The number is simply printed on the back. Many banks allow you to lock the card using the App as well.

[pwinnski]

In the US, I have multiple Chase credit cards with no raised numbers. The number is printed in flat ink on the back of the card.

The Apple card doesn't display the number anywhere on the card at all.

[Reason077]

> "I wouldn't applaud it being adopted since the raised numbers make it easier to read by eye."

I disagree with this. The new-style card numbers are printed in a much more legible typeface, with more contrast than the old raised numbers. Much easier to read IMO, although the blind may disagree! I've had no issues with the ink wearing off on any of my cards.