[drzaiusapelord]

HN has a lot of "both sides are the same" centrists and libertarians. They don't realize there there is still a tiny thread of pro-worker pro-middle-class democratic action in the US government. I have no idea how much longer it can survive, but people like Wyden, AOC, Bernie, etc fight the good fight and that goes against everything centrists and 3rd party types believe. Everyone is a republican to them and when shown otherwise, they either nitpick with whataboutisms or just clam up.

[kiawe_fire]

I don’t think it’s so much “everyone is a {whatever party I hate}” (which changes with your frame of reference). It’s more “everyone is part of the elites against the people”. The party labels are pretty meaningless, which itself is a bit shattering for those who come to realize it late.

But you’re right, there are a few left that seem to be fighting for the people. Some are effective and others are naive but well meaning.

But they are clearly the minority. They’re fighting bombastic partisan media coverage on both sides, they’re often fighting people within their parties, they’re often struggling just to earn their place.

At first, you get excited at the prospect of holding police accountable when Rand Paul introduces laws against knockless warrants, or you hope for the prospect of a real, sustainable income plan from Yang or Gabbard.

And then you watch as they get maligned and lied about on Fox News and CNN alike. You think, “this plan they’re advocating for will surely attract support from the rest of their party” and then you watch in awe as both sides warp, twist, or outright attack their plans.

You watch with weary eyes as someone like AOC who appears to come from the outside with a background similar to your own gets taken in by people like Pelosi, and you hope against the odds that she will remain true to her ideals, but you know that so many before her did not. After all, at one point Pelosi herself was fighting for the freedom of the internet, yet look at her now.

At some point, you get tired of putting hope into the good ones. You get frustrated every time they seem to make progress only to be struck down. You get sick of seeing them naively fall for the notion that their colleagues are as genuine as they are.

At some point, you just find it easier, both for the sake of conversation but also your own peace of mind, to wrap it all up into the same package of “they’re all bad” and just stop wasting your emotional energy on it.

Or maybe that’s just me.

[ThunderSizzle]

You pick AOC and Bernie as examples of people fighting for the middle class. AOC's Green New Deal would've destroyed the middle class. She probably means well, but she really is just a useful idiot.

[csh0]

I am sort of confused by this. There was never even any actual concrete legislation to pass.

AOC introduced a resolution (text here: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-resolutio...) which if passed, would have basically just affirmed (in a non-binding way) the interest of the house to create a "Green New Deal". The actual legislation itself would, if the house agreed to do so, need to then be created, debated, and voted on before being passed.

"House resolutions are not binding law, but rather express the collective sentiment of the House on a particular issue, person, or event."

The actual resolution itself is pretty short, and I find most of the statements and goals in it pretty tame and agreeable. But again, it is not as if this resolution being passed means that all of those things necessarily must end up in the actual Green New Deal to be passed or even that it gets created at all.

Could you elaborate on how this would destroy the middle class? I might have missed something but there was never even any policy proposed, because the Green New Deal was never created to be voted on. I don't understand how you can make an evaluation like that without examining the actual policies to go into effect.

[femiagbabiaka]

Strong statements, no evidence. Barely distinguishable from trolling.

[mulmen]

Please evaluate your filters. If you believe this you are in a bubble. It’s the economic and historical equivalent of belief in a flat earth.

The “New Deal” saved the middle class. A “green” new deal could do it again.

We have an incredible need and opportunity to (re)build infrastructure in this country. That’s where the middle class can thrive.

The green new deal was an olive branch as much as anything. An opportunity for everyone to make a needed contribution and be compensated for it.

[ThunderSizzle]

You really did a good job at convincing me.

- assume my "filters" are wrong. A difference of opinions doesn't mean my filters are wrong. It simply means I made different conclusions. If you want to support AOC and her policies, go for it. I won't partake.

- believe I'm in a bubble. Right. That's why I'm on HN; because I'm in a bubble and you think exactly as I do?

- Now I believe in a flat earth. That's just a wasted comment.

- Pointing to the "New Deal" that "saved the middle class". It's highly debatable if the New Deal prolonged the Great Depression or not. While it helped many Americans keep food on the table, no doubt, it didn't stop the Great Depression. Regardless, I can turn around and say, I want the "____ New Deal", and it must be good because that's what I called it? That's a laughable concept.

By your measure, healthcare actually became more affordable after the Affordable Healthcare Act became law - because that's the title of the law?

Regardless, I agree that the infrastructure can be improved. My state is already doing it. They've rebuilt an interchange in record time because a bridge wall collapsed. What is your state doing?

Stating that everyone should have access to "high-quality health care" or "economic security" isn't an olive branch. Obviously no one disagrees with that. The discussion is "how", and that's the only important discussion to have.

But, if you want to stick with mudslinging and belittling those who disagree with you, go for it.

[drzaiusapelord]

HN is absolutely a far right wing bubble. Some of us are here despite that.