[strangesongs]

Almost all of the SoCal police departments (LAPD, LASD, San Bernardino Sheriffs) are out of control, with massive, sprawling budgets (the city of Los Angeles gives more money to police than any other category and just added more money for the next year after their "defunding" in 2020) and a complete lack of oversight.

Villanueva, in charge of the LA County Sheriff's Department, has refused to participate in basic oversight or accountability from the LA County Board of Supervisors and routinely oversteps his legal boundaries in dealing with issues (his bizarre "sweeps" in Venice, as one example).

The police are an uncontrollable force in this country and will only grow more violent and brazen in their actions as public trust continues to erode.

[gime_tree_fiddy]

I feel like a much needed accountability reset of police departments across the country got sidelined, after the BLM protests(George Floyd) that erupted turned into a call for abolishing them. I don't want to abolish them, and would be willing to fund them even more with better trainings in exchange for better accountability. The subsequent actions would've even fulfilled some of the asks of the protestors. The ideological asks kinda ruined it.

[Rebelgecko]

As a counterpoint, last time I did a comparison it looked like LAPD had a drastically smaller budget (both per capita and per square mile) than any large other city. NYPD's budget is well over double per capita.

[vgeek]

https://lasdgangs.knock-la.com/

This may be relevant if you haven't already seen it.

[strangesongs]

^^^^^^ yes!

[edmcnulty101]

The police are only allowed to do what the law let's them.

no knock warrants are not the police's fault.

seizure of people's property is not the police's fault

militarization of police is not their fault

the police are literally using all the tools at their disposal that the law allows them to.

Your frustration should be targeted at the politicians who are influenced by lobbyists and have their seats secured by gerrymandering who give the police these powers.

the police are just easy targets for people's frustration

[glennvtx]

This is incorrect, it is an appeal to false authority, the "Nuremberg" defense. If you, as an individual, take by force the property of a person that has not demonstrably harmed another, you are a thief.

If you kick in the door of another human being, that has not demonstrably harmed another's person, or by extension, property, you are an armed home invader.

"The law" does not change your moral obligations. "the law" is historically speaking, a very poor measure of morality.

You have every right to extract a lethal price from those that would trespass your person or property at gunpoint, as is happening here. They are armed robbers, and will continue to be until it is no longer worth "the cost".

[edmcnulty101]

Fighting criminals and killing evil people is considered moral.

The police could argue that the they are moral by taking drug money from drug offenders, and using a no knock warrant To catch a criminal.... and as a matter of fact that's exactly what is argued.

Many Indian people consider it immoral to eat a cow but that's moral in America.

The Germans viewed the Jewish people as evil and so the guards could have believed they were doing something moral at Nuremberg.

Morality is vague and hard to pin down.

The law doesn't reflect morality but morality isn't objective, so that's good.

Laws are supposed to be purely utilitarian and functional and to represent what society as a whole views as the correct way to keep the machinery of society running smoothly.

[tsol]

>Many Indian people consider it immoral to eat a cow but that's moral in America.

Technically, but that's an Hindu belief not a Indian belief

[edmcnulty101]

X group views Y practice as immoral.

[sterlind]

The police guilds are lobbyists too. They fight tooth and nail to keep chokeholds, qualified immunity, extremely high bars for prosecution etc. And when they're not happy, they strike, which puts people in danger.

[strangesongs]

Yep! The police unions hold massive sway over cities, media (especially local media) and politicians by threatening to simply stop enforcing laws if they don't get their way. They can then use the media and scare tactics to drive up "crime is out of control" narratives (see: 500 stories about shoplifting, "organized robberies" sweeping cities, etc), argue they need more funding by creating work stoppages and then wait for public opinion to come back around to their side.

[edmcnulty101]

Agree! But shouldn't they be able to lobby for themselves? Shouldn't the responsibility rest in the hands of the person with the power who is being lobbied to resist or to be fair?

[EdwardDiego]

Huh, the Police in the US are allowed to strike?

Must admit, that makes me realise some of the stereotypes I hold about American attitudes to unionism are in need of revision.

[nradov]

In most jurisdictions police can't literally strike. But it's tough to prevent them from calling in sick, or force them to actually work when out on patrol.

[strangesongs]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_flu

https://www.insider.com/police-have-historically-protested-b...

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/10/the-pba-sues-to-bloc...

[joshuamorton]

> no knock warrants are not the police's fault.

The no-knock raid that killed Amir Locke around a week ago was done at MPDs insistence, despite a moratorium on no-knock raids being in place.

> the police are literally using all the tools at their disposal that the law allows them to.

Police departments regularly threaten lawmakers and their families (this has happened in SF, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Police_Departmen...) and NYC (https://www.businessinsider.com/aoc-attacks-nypd-for-threate...).

Police departments regularly break the law, but they can't be punished because, well, who is going to arrest the police?

[edmcnulty101]

There's a small amount of people in every single profession and walk of life who break the law. I mean look at priests.

That's just human nature and is a constant throughout all time. they need to be punished but the extent of the rot.

The most critical problems in my opinion are when the system itself is rotten.

A no knock warrant is much scarier than a handful of cops who lie.

Because the system does not punish them for their actions.

it sanctions more than just a bad seeds.

[strangesongs]

Correct, yes, politicians who have contributed to the militarization of US policing are also to blame, along with the massive military industrial complex and its lobbying arms in Washington. This country has been on a downward spiral since 9/11 to arm our police forces as if they're elite counter-terrorism units.

But saying "they're just using the tools available" also evades accountability of the police. Police use legal no-knock warrants, yes, but they also routinely murder people during those no-knock warrants with no legal authority to do so and then press to cover up, obfuscate or avoid accountability of those actions:

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/04/1078313707/amir-locke-killed-...

This story specifically is about police using the blurry overlap of local, state and federal authority to specifically target businesses serving dispensaries. These officers targeted Empyreal with pre-textural stops that directly targeted these businesses that have the right to operate in CA.

These officers are deliberately lying and falsifying information to target businesses they see as easy targets. In this instance, the police literally are the problem.

from the og link:

"During the December 9 stop, the deputies claimed a drug-sniffing dog alerted to the van, which Empyreal says is not true: "Video footage from the vehicle does not show the dog alert on the vehicle. Instead, it shows the dog is barely interested in the vehicle."

The deputies obtained a search warrant prior to the November 16 seizure, but Empyreal says the application included several false or misleading statements. It says the deputy who applied for the warrant mistakenly claimed that Empyreal converts money from marijuana businesses into cryptocurrency and falsely asserted that some of the company's clients were not licensed by the state. The deputy also said Empyreal did not have a marijuana business license, which is not required to transport money from dispensaries to banks. Furthermore, a 2020 law says a company that provides such services to state-licensed marijuana businesses "does not commit a crime under any California law."

[sitkack]

When the tools of lying, murdering and stealing are available to the police, they will use them.