[ActorNightly]

The issue with Amazon is that due to its size, working on a team is essentially like working for a separate company. If you are moving across big orgs, you are just a blip in the system should something like this come up. And just like a group of startups, some are going to be run worse than others.

Additionally, because of the internal transfer policy and teams frequently switching out members, a lot of work is designed to be picked up by a new person, especially at the SD1/SD2 levels, so people are generally replaceable. Couple that with the fact that the interview process only tests for academic knowledge, without really proving that you can set up infra and services in production. And even more on top on top of that, Amazon gets a never ending candidate pool. So you get a combination of both poor performance that actually need to get PIPed out mixed in with poor teams that are ran like crap because managers themselves are not really technical and end up not delivering and then having to PIP people out.

That being said, because of this sort of structure, if you know how to make moves and "read the room" so to speak, Amazon is the best company for finding that sweet spot of maximizing revenue/actual hour worked. If you are a talented software engineer, not just a developer and generally know how to navigate around managers, you can hit senior engineer or manager levels quite easily, and then cruise control your way at $300k a year, and with an added benefit of lots of remote positions right now (since wfh is a big selling point in order to not get rejected by good candidates). From talking to people at Google/Facebook, those kind of moves are a lot harder to do.

[selestify]

> If you are a talented software engineer, not just a developer and generally know how to navigate around managers, you can hit senior engineer or manager levels quite easily,

How do you “navigate” your way around an 11:30 PM email that contains a 5:30 AM deadline, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread?

[robertcope]

"I was asleep. The expectation that I would see it, much less respond to it, is crazy."

[hprotagonist]

Pre-declare available working hours, and adhere to them.

I have a cronjob that signs out of {slack, email, zoom, ...} at a particular time of day, my work accounts aren't attached to my personal devices, and i respond promptly to communication during working hours. I genuinely don't see work-related comms when i'm not working, and my work availability is in my slack profile, my internal email signature, and in my outlook calendar.

[ctvo]

Don’t let it get to that state? If you can’t, find a new team?

[Snoozus]

ignore it

[ignoramous]

> The issue with Amazon is that due to its size, working on a team is essentially like working for a separate company.

Not really; esp when the processes and priorities are alike across the company (with exception of few organizations that are experimenting newer processes at any given point in time).

> Amazon is the best company for finding that sweet spot of maximizing revenue/actual hour worked.

I don't think a single tenured co-worker who, during the pandemic, moved to Airbnb, Uber, Google, Stripe, and heck, even Coinbase, look back fondly upon the management structure they were subject to at Amazon, now that they've seen how other companies in the space are setup.

> If you are a talented software engineer ... cruise control your way at $300k a year.

Well, there's this: https://nitter.net/quinnypig/status/1386803846970675200

[schrute]

How are other companies setup that make them distinct from Amazon?

[ignoramous]

I guess it is hard to pinpoint one particular thing, when it is the overall system of ruthless management which causes grief among engs who dare have a performance blip... on top of the constant stream of stories/rumours they hear of their co-workers / from their co-workers... I guess it only makes them want to move to some place where there is less of such constant barrage of negativity (tangential: https://hbr.org/2016/06/the-management-thinker-we-should-nev...). Personally though, I quit AWS three ago, and haven't looked back, though I did like my time there (and have very little to complaint about).

[bambataa]

At the risk of sounding like someone who clearly doesn’t have the skills you’re talking about, what do you mean by “reading the room” here? Knowing when to push things, when to drop them, being trusted enough by management that they don’t blame you for failing to meet absurd requests?