[bawolff]

I'm not following the whole thing but i think part of the controversy is the person collecting the money is suspected to have run off with it or suspected to intend to run off with it, or something.

Regardless, i doubt people waving swastikas and demanding that democratic leaders be replaced with a dictatorship is exactly the type of "standing up to government" gofundme envisioned.

[causality0]

It baffles me why people continue to judge movements they don't like based on their worst members and movements they do like based on their best intentions. I don't agree with their position but most of the truckers aren't Nazis any more than most BLM participants were looters.

[bawolff]

If the worst members of a movement are also the organizers, i think its right to judge [in this particular case referring to the MOU document]

[BizarroLand]

If the group you're in pulls out Nazi flags and you don't leave the group, then you're endorsing Nazism the same as if your group starts to break into a house and you don't leave the group then you're an accessory to breaking into a house.

It's very basic stuff here.

[causality0]

Boogaloo Boys are regularly present at BLM protests. Does the failure to kick them out mean the people around them endorse the murder of police and the violent overthrow of the US government?

[bawolff]

If they are protesting with the blm people (e.g. intermingled), then yes.

If they are having counter protests e.g.seperate protests within proximity but clearly distinct, then no.

[Bancakes]

If one person pulls a Nazi flag or throws stones at riot cops, he is an agitator and must be outed. Throwing your hands up and leaving will leave you running circles, and is not very mature.

[BizarroLand]

That's a different story, as evidenced by the fact that you told a different story than the one I told.

If you're in a group and someone starts throwing stones at a cop, you help the cop get that person (at the very least by getting away from that person so you don't interfere with the cop). If you're in a group and a person joins the group and pulls out a Nazi flag, then you kick that person out of the group unless your group sympathizes with Nazis.

[SaiUEF9U6gDXHyW]

who said they were in the group? if you keep seeing nazis everywhere than maybe you're the one with the problem?

[BizarroLand]

If I see Nazi flags and Swastikas being waved proudly, and I say, "Man, I can't believe there are Nazis over there, I thought we first world countries absolutely hated Nazis!", why would that be a me problem?

[colpabar]

What swastikas?

[mikeyouse]

These truckers (and most antivaxxers) somehow think they're as stigmatized as the Jews were during WWII so they often wear yellow stars, compare themselves to Anne Frank, and have signs with the SS moniker / draw swastikas over the flags to demonstrate how oppressed they are.. a few made it on TV while the MP was talking to the news crews. Whenever there's anything remotely anti-government the Gadsen/Confederate battle flags make an appearance too. Just delightful behavior.

https://images.theconversation.com/files/443549/original/fil...

https://albertapolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/CooperMain-900...

https://albertapolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/Flags1-238x300...

https://albertapolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/Flags2-300x245...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKMstBjXsAcY0C4?format=jpg&name=...

https://i.cbc.ca/1.6173258.1631709823!/fileImage/httpImage/i...

[enchiridion]

Small nit-pick, it is disingenuous to write “Gadsen/Confederate” flag when those are two totally separate things.

The Gadsen flag for most people is a symbol of independence and freedom. Historically it was not associated with slavery, the confederate secession, or the civil war.

[BitwiseFool]

I'd say that's a major distinction, not a minor nitpick at all.

[enchiridion]

Gotta assume best intentions, everyone doesn’t know about everything :)

[mikeyouse]

99% of the Gadsden flags in my area are flying alongside confederate flags — likewise most of them in the protest pics I’ve seen. I know the flag’s history predates the Civil War and that it once upon a time was devoid of the current undertones, but alas, it’s (IMO) irredeemably tainted.

[hunterb123]

Counter anecdote. I've never seen a Gadsden flag flown by a confederate flag. It's mainly flown by libertarians and others who respect privacy and freedom.

Either way, confederate flags aren't normally flown in racist intent. Most people fly them to represent their heritage. The Dixie line, Outlaw country, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a libertarian from deep Georgia fly both and not be racist in the slight.

I think you need to leave your bubble and learn about the people you are trying to demonize.

[acheron]

That’s utter nonsense and you should stop spreading it.

[mikeyouse]

It was literally the secession flag for multiple states during the civil war -- to the point where the most famous battle hymn explicitly frames victory for the Union as crushing the serpent.

That may be an inconvenient truth for those who want to avoid its tainted history but it's definitely not nonsense.

Don't take my word for it -- feel free to peruse the selection at your local confederate flag dealer:

https://ruffinrebel.com/product-category/gadsden/

https://rebelnationok.com/page/2/?s=gadsden&post_type=produc...

Or show up to your local Klan rally:

https://contexts.org/files/2017/09/Charlottesville_-Unite_th...

If you want to fly a patriotic flag in the US, I'd suggest the American one.

[finnx]

One of those photographs you posted found[1] to be taken by personal photographer of Trudeau and most of them taken away from protesters.

This[2] is one example how protesters react when they try to infiltrate the actual crowd.

[1]: https://twitter.com/stobione/status/1489320295764660228

[2]: https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1488325761572478981

[prepend]

Those first three images seem pretty unequivocally using nazi imagery to critique Canada. So they aren’t Nazis, they are people complaining that Canada is acting like Nazis.

I haven’t followed this but have heard friends saying that Nazis are participating. I would expect that this means some Nazis were participating. But these images don’t show that.

The confederate flags just seem like jerks.

[DonHopkins]

Which is why he said "waving swastikas", not "being Nazis".

But yes, Nazis are getting involved with the anti-vax protests, on the same side as Trump, not on Science's side.

In Germany’s east, far-right extremists find footholds in escalating anti-vaccine protests:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/30/coronavirus-...

>While Kohlmann contends that Free Saxons is not an extremist group, German authorities say it is clearly so. The co-founder, Stefan Hartung, is a member of the district council for Germany’s National Democratic Party, a neo-Nazi party. Kohlmann professed to seek the return of the Saxon monarchy and independence for the state.

>He said the pandemic is an opportunity to reach more people. A “much broader range” of demonstrators join the weekly walks on Monday than anti-immigrant rallies.

>He doesn’t have to reach out to people, he said. They are coming to him.

>“It’s exploding,” he said of the group’s social media presence. The Free Saxons’ Telegram channel had 48,000 followers in August 2021, it has now grown to more than 140,000.

[prepend]

But “waving swastikas” isn’t very interesting unless it signifies Nazis right? It’s not bad to use swastikas to critique governments if you think they’re acting like Nazis.

The intent of swastikas in that situation isn’t pro-nazi or anti-Semitic.

I’m not sure what real Nazis in Germany being anti-vax has to do with our conversation. RFKJr is anti-vax too, what does that matter about this convoy.

I was trying to figure out if there were Nazis in the convoy. It seems like there aren’t.

[mikeyouse]

Comparing a government mandate for international truckers to get a free, safe vaccine during a pandemic to anything nazis did is deeply offensive.

[jeromegv]

Swastikas flag were seen at the protest.

Also very far-right and nazis groups have joined the protest and were close to the organizers

https://www.antihate.ca/the_freedom_convoy_is_nothing_but_a_...

[ipaddr]

There are many people of different colours at the protests. Do you paint them as nazi because someone had a flag? I saw a flag from Norway, is Norway suddenly behind this?

[BizarroLand]

If you're a member of a group and that group pulls out a Nazi flag, do you leave the group or do you expect random passers-by to think for a moment that maybe you aren't a Nazi sympathizer?

"Oh, everyone knows ipaddr! He hangs out with a bunch of Nazis that protest to entrench "born white" as the de facto ruling class of the country, kill all the gays and trans people, and to have two separate sets of laws, one that only applies to them, and one that applies to everyone else, but he's sweet as can be!"

No one is going to waste the brain power.

[ipaddr]

I wouldn't assume someone carrying a Nazi flag means all of those things. I wouldn't assume everyone was gay or supported gay rights if someone held a rainbow flag. I might assume the person holding the flag has support for the flag but it's not necessarily true.

If the Nazi flag had Justin Trudeau's face on it I would instantly get the message that Trudeau is a Nazi not support for a group from a foreign country in the 1930s.

[BizarroLand]

Lot of people working in overdrive to excuse displays of Nazi symbolism these days. Never would have thought I would see it on y-combinator but here we are.

[josephcsible]

> If you're a member of a group and that group pulls out a Nazi flag, do you leave the group or do you expect random passers-by to think for a moment that maybe you aren't a Nazi sympathizer?

Does this mean that you should be able to immediately end any protest you don't like just by going to it and then pulling out a Nazi flag when you get there?

[BitwiseFool]

I'm continually amazed at just how easy it is to get people to completely dismiss the legitimacy and message of any movement. All you need is for someone to take a few photos of a unidentifiable individual in the vicinity who is carrying a Nazi flag.