[Ansil849]

Veganism is not about suffering (if it were about suffering, suffering-free animal consumption would be acceptable, and it is not) , it is about a rejection of the commodification and exploitation of nonhuman species. Fake meats partake in that commodification, albeit as an imitation.

[oh_sigh]

Veganism is about many things in different ratios for different people. I don't think you get to decide why people are vegan and why they aren't.

Can you give an example of suffering-free animal consumption?

[Ansil849]

> Veganism is about many things in different ratios for different people. I don't think you get to decide why people are vegan and why they aren't

If everyone gets to decide on the meaning of a concept to them personally, then that concept loses meaning. I'm using an almost textbook definition.

> Can you give an example of suffering-free animal consumption?

Sure, harvesting honey which has fallen off a honeycomb beneath a tree.

[moby_click]

> harvesting honey which has fallen off a honeycomb beneath a tree

I never had this opportunity, but I don't see an ethical problem here. As a more realistic example (in my environment), I suggest dumpster diving. I think it would be okay, ethically, but I would not do it because it grosses me out in a way that vegan substitutes don't, and that feeling is not related to the dumpster part.

I may have to do some more introspection, but I honestly don't think, that my acceptance of vegan substitutes is based on a desire to harm animals.

[neetha]

Interesting view point. But by that logic - you shouldn't use contraceptives if you're against having babies. Or kill people on video games if you're against murder. It's not like vegans imagine killing animals while eating fake meat. They are just taking care of their taste buds. In fact nobody thinks of animals when they eat. If people did, more people would eat less meat. And that's why all meat should look exactly like the animals they come from. And not random shapes that they are made into.

[Ansil849]

My point is that veganism is an ideology and a philosophy, it's not just a lifestyle choice. Not eating or otherwise using animal products does not make someone a vegan--it's a necessary prerequisite, of course, but not the sole requirement. Actively fighting against animal exploitation is at the very core of veganism. Supporting and reinforcing a culture which normalizes animal consumption, or the imitation thereof, actively fights against this cause. We should be working to highlight how fucked up it is that people want to pretend to eat animals, because they 'taste good', not reinforcing the view that it's OK to do so.

[joe5150]

", or the imitation thereof," is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this ideology.