[johannes1234321]

The "EU doing things" is not detached from your national government. In fact all EU legislation is being approved by your national government in the EU Council and the EU commission has to report there. (As well as the EU parliament, however the EU parliament is weak ...)

Edit: maybe as addition in the last point in parentheses: The EU parliament is purposely weak, as the EU is a union of states and the member state government want the power in the council and don't want to give up power.

[the_biot]

Well said. I'd add that the EU has for decades been a convenient scapegoat for member governments to point to, when "forced" by the EU to do things that needed doing but are politically difficult. Think of all the national champions forced to live by market rules, like flag carriers, telecom monopolies etc.

[Scarblac]

I know that. What I consider "scary" is that the EU can only do this because they're aren't directly elected and so not as subject to the typical democratic pressures.

It points at a clear weakness of democracy.

[johannes1234321]

Pressure your government to vote "no" on policies you don't like or pressure your government to initiate other legislation. They have the power and responsibility.

And yes, I personally would like to have a stronger EU Parliament relative to the Commission and Council. However there is no reason to let the national government escape with "it's EU law" after they approved it. (And yes, Council doesn't require unanimous vote for most items anymore since the Lisbon treaty, thus it is possible your government voted "no", but that then is democracy and they have to convince other governments ...)

(Just a side note: I like GDPR and think it is to large parts good and push my government to support it)

[Scarblac]

I think you misunderstand.

Almost all law coming out of the EU is really beneficial for the people, in my experience. Making a law like the GDPR and implementing it is hard work that doesn't grab headlines and first gives us a few years of annoying popups, but in the end it will actually improve privacy for EU citizens.

And national politicians can't do this anymore, because they have to be in the news each day and be in constant campaign mode because the next election may come sooner than expected. They need big words and shiny results.

If we make the EU more democratic, will it become less effective too?

[johannes1234321]

> If we make the EU more democratic, will it become less effective too?

This is probably the first time I'm hearing somebody claiming EU was effective ;)

However you are right - the fact that there is less attention on EU legislation enables different dynamics.

However I think it is quite different between countries how well they do. Here in Germany I am quite optimistic that the new government will do quite a few good things ... but maybe I'm too optimistic, but lots of good signals from my pov

[native_samples]

No it doesn't. Democracies don't do this because it's posturing designed to appeal to a particular kind of person (e.g. your kind of person).

Normal people don't care about cookies or consent popups and merely find them annoying/frustrating. I've never, ever heard anyone praise these popups outside of Europeans posting on Hacker News. That's a small community and it's a bubble convinced of its own purity.

Here's why democracies don't do this kind of thing: democratically elected governments are expected to generate economic growth and jobs by voters. Constantly levying massive fines on companies who aren't actually upsetting most citizens, via ultra-vague laws that create "tails we win, heads we also win" outcomes for the bureaucracy, is something that most mature democracies realized don't work out well in the long run. So they don't do it.

The EU has no such concerns because it's not accountable to anyone, for anything, despite what sometimes people like to try and claim. Result: a stagnant economy with an ever shrinking proportion of global GDP that tries to cover up its damningly consistent failure to produce successful tech firms by pretending it's too morally righteous to do so.

Signed,

A European. But not an "EU citizen".

[blibble]

> In fact all EU legislation is being approved by your national government in the EU Council

it's via QMV, not unanimity

so no need for "your" national government to approve it

[johannes1234321]

Considering that almost all governments voted "yes" and only Austria voted "no" as they considered it to weak I think it is fair to say their government supported it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20171125221345/http://www.votewa...

In general you have somewhat of a point, but then it is democracy that the government would be responsible to argue for their point and convince others.

"EU did it" is a cheap excuse.