[ahelwer]

My impression of these services are that they are simply available so people can feel they have "done something" about someone who seems suicidal by giving them the number, then wash their hands of the rest of it. Not that someone else's mental health puts any particular obligation on you, but that's the dynamic I see play out. I've called these services twice over the years when I was young and naive and had friends I was worried about, and their entire objective is to trick you into giving them details so they can sic the police on these people and ruin their lives with an involuntary hold in the psych ward. One of the calls was more of an advice call, as in I (then 16 years old) was trying to ask them what I should do, and when I refused to give them the person's address the person on the line straight up asked me "what do you want me to do?" I don't know! I was a scared 16 year old kid and you're supposed to be the one who knows that! What is the point of you answering the phone!

[wfn]

I'm sorry to hear you had these shitty experiences :( FWIW, I agree with some others who say that it differs between hotlines and it does depend.

I volunteer at one (working at software doesn't provide enough meaning as far as activities go, and this does, as a side thing), and we are very strict about not forcing advice (or rescue) on anyone. (I had to go through multi-month trainings, practice, then supervision etc., we have ongoing seminars and equivalent of QA, etc.) The primary goal is provide emotional support and to give the caller a safe space where they can be heard, openly express and talk about their feelings and thoughts. We are there expressly not to solve any issues they are having. If they need it and consent to it and give an address (the calls are anonymous), we can call an ambulance; but even then the preference is if the caller does that.

I can tell (with some statistics and also lots of feedback) that the support does address the callers' emotional needs to be heard (sometimes to organise thoughts, understand their emotions, to speak to a real human and feel less lonely, etc.)

[kayodelycaon]

I had a whole rant on hotlines, but I honestly didn’t know there were good ones. No one in my support group had a positive story about hotlines.

I am extremely glad good ones exist. If you have a list, I’ll share it with my support group.

Edit: removed my horror story… we don’t need another one on this thread.

[wfn]

I unfortunately don't have a list for the US, I'm based in the Baltics (Lithuania). I've heard good stories from US hotlines but don't know any particular names.

[ReactiveJelly]

Trans Lifeline [1] calls that practice "Non-consensual rescue" and they're very strongly against it.

> The organization’s hotline does not engage in non-consensual active rescue,[15] meaning operators never call 911, police, or emergency services on callers without an expressed request and consent, based on research associating involuntary hospitalization with increases suicide attempts after discharge.[16][17] Additionally, they believe that calling the police on transgender people in crisis, particularly trans people of color, causes more harm.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_Lifeline

[cmg]

Former Technology Director for TL here - I maintained and deeply extended their hotline software. We took confidentiality and anonymity very, very seriously. Operators never, ever see the phone number of the caller, and vice versa. Only admins can even look up a caller by phone number. There were other technical measures as well, but I'm not going to give them up in a public forum, hope that's understandable.

[ketzo]

Just wanna say thank you for your work.

[cmg]

Thank you, ketzo. Unfortunately I'm no longer with the org and can't say for sure that they wouldn't ever try to do something like this. I'm working with a new group now on open source peer support software that also values privacy.

[jacquesm]

That is an excellent qualification to make. You only know as much as you've seen and what happens after you turn your back is hopefully more of the same or better but that is no guarantee. Kudos for seeing this sharp.

[gjsman-1000]

Can't help but have flashbacks to The Incredibles where Mr. Incredible was sued by a person he saved from suicide because that was involuntary...

[temp-dude-87844]

The same conundrum comes up with the medical forms that ask one to self-report any post-partum depression, or any time you can be found mentally unfit (e.g. at your job, like in 2015 Germanwings pilot-murder-suicide) so that the bureaucracy descends to irrevocably alter your life. As a society, we still haven't figured out a way that allows a suicidal person to get their time-out, while ensuring that that intervention won't impair their future.

[542458]

I’ve actually found crisis lines to be fairly helpful. Sure, they have little real world power but the people I have spoken to have been calm and reassuring, which more often than not has been what I needed. A few people I’ve spoken to have been particularly memorably great, and I wish I could buy them all a beer.

This isn’t to dismiss those who’ve had bad experiences. I just wanted to offer a different perspective.

[VampireWillow]

I worked at a suicide hotline in Canada. The problem with what you are saying is that, as far as I know, there is no unified organism for suicide prevention centers and hotlines in North America (there are associations, but they don't seem to demand a unified process).

This means that, while your experience totally sucked, it can't be generalized. Most people I've talked to from all over the country genuinely want to help. I assume it's the same in the US. But some centers offer very little training, and their legal means probably vary a lot by location.

That said, there is a lot they can do beyond calling an ambulance, but it still comes down to talking and guidance, no one can physically force people to get better, except maybe some institutions (debatable).

[otachack]

This is more of a reason for reverting police funds to other efforts, such as people that can help in cases like you brought up. Law enforcement has just become a huge bucket that encompasses too much.

[delabay]

OP's hot take isn't reality. Worked at a suicide hotline for a year.

The fundamental purpose of suicide hotlines is to take burden off emergency services, and to give folks a coping mechanism which doesn't involve 911.

90% of callers are frequent fliers, calling weekly to daily. In the year I worked there I only had 2-3 calls which required serious treatment.

[vmception]

that doesn't mean it is invalid either.

[thrown_22]

When reddit added a "get help" message for suicide hotlines it was a way for 'nice' people to tell you to kill yourself without a death threat.

Kind of how old church ladies used to tell you they will pray for your immortal soul to not end in hell.

I have a feeling that those two groups are related in the biological sense.

[pcdoodle]

How is telling someone to KTS a death threat?

[thrown_22]

The same way "Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?" was.

[alexashka]

You have to understand that this is a poorly paid phone job for the person on the other end.

They don't have a PhD. They are not top 1% intelligence, top 1% compassion and top 1% drive to help others. They are just people who applied for a job, got it and are following a script or whatever little training they've been given.

When you're younger, you think there's adults who know a thing or two. Then you grow up and realize that's 0.0001% of the population. Everyone else knows how to do a couple of repetitive tasks and repeat sentences they heard other people say, not much more than that.

[ericbarrett]

In fact they may not even be employed; a relative of mine had to do a few shifts on such a hotline as part of a community service sentence for a non-violent misdemeanor.

[alexashka]

Haha my mind cannot believe this to be true and yet it'd take some 4D chess to have made up such a strange, specific lie.

[burnished]

I'm not like, broadly familiar with community service as a punishment across the globe, cultures, and time, but the way I'm familiar with is a mandate of X hours and its on you to find a place to volunteer and get them to sign off. So its not like the court told them to do this particular act of penance, which yes would strain credulity, it was self selected.

[ericbarrett]

I'm not sure why people don't believe this...? It was in California in the early 2000s and it was offered as an alternative to litter-picking and, if I recall, work at a soup kitchen. Said relative chose it because of the travel time since they lived far away from the jurisdiction where they were sentenced. I'd ask for more details but they passed away a few years later.

[vmception]

I don't often find people able to articulate their views on the suicide topic, and also aren't comfortable talking about it.

The best thing I've heard though is that there is a large subset of suicides that are spur of the moment decisions. And so an option like a suicide prevention hotline is to serve as a distraction and circuit breaker to get the afflicted human onto something else. That also means there is no use case where you call the hotline on someone's behalf.

[encryptluks2]

Basically same experience. Even the mental health hotlines can be the same way. Unless you tell them you plan on killing yourself they say there is nothing they can do to help.

[ReactiveJelly]

Yeah there's been 4 or 5 times where I really wanted someone to talk to, but I'm just not a suicidal person, so it feels weird to tie up a suicide hotline for my petty problems.

So then you go to a therapist and they're like "You have to want to change".

I don't know about that. I used to have friends. I don't want to change, I want to have friends again!

Considering how much therapy costs, I've joked about just hiring prostitutes to be my friends for hourly pay. Why can't the gig economy meet that demand, huh? I'll pay $15 an hour to share my opinions on Linux with another trans girl while she pretends to listen. That's an entire work shift for the price of 1 hour of therapy!

[thrown_22]

>Considering how much therapy costs, I've joked about just hiring prostitutes to be my friends for hourly pay. Why can't the gig economy meet that demand, huh? I'll pay $15 an hour to share my opinions on Linux with another trans girl while she pretends to listen. That's an entire work shift for the price of 1 hour of therapy!

If you talk to escorts a surprisingly large chunk of their clientele does exactly that. That said $15 is no where near enough to have to listen to someone talk about how great Arch is.

[AHatLikeThat]

In New Mexico we have a non-profit staffed by volunteers trained in listening. It is not a suicide hotline exactly, they welcome anyone who feels like they need to talk. It's anonymous. I had several friends who volunteered there some years back; they'd get calls from old people who were lonely, stressed out students, all kinds of people. I don't think you have to be New Mexican to call. http://www.agoracares.org/ 505-277-3013 855-505-4505

[easrng]

You don't need to pay to talk about Linux, silly. There are plenty of people (Including trans girls (hey that's me)) who'd listen for free!

[fires10]

Funny you should mention that, I have thought about similar things. There a few trans related discords for techies. That helped me.

[codingdave]

> their entire objective is to trick you into giving them details so they can sic the police on these people and ruin their lives with an involuntary hold in the psych ward

This is 100% untrue. Their objective is to prevent suicide. If you intend to harm yourself, and nobody is around to make you safe, yes, they bring people in to enforce safety and yes that is often law enforcement. They will take the suicidal person to an ER, where the ER staff will do an assessment, and then may opt to put you in an involuntary hold if a licensed psychiatric provider deems it is necessary. But it is more likely that even if you do need hospitalization, they will recommend a voluntary hospital stay. Most care providers look to give people the least restrictive care that still gets the job done.

It is also important to note that you called on behalf of friends but refused to give out any info. There is very little they can do in that case. You are not the one at risk. You do not control the environment of the one at risk. You won't tell them who is at risk. I can understand why they got frustrated. I can also understand why you are frustrated. But none of those frustrations make your assertion true.