[throwawaysysd]

>If I need elevated privileges it's always a one-off job, which means I need a commandline anyway.

This is why polkit actions are the way they are, so you actually have a chance of being able to encode those one-off tasks into permissions for a GUI. It's not implemented for everything that requires root, and it probably won't ever be implemented for all of it but it's a lot better than it used to be. Part of it is improving because desktops like KDE made it easier to plug in new panels to the system settings, another part is that applications started using the higher level D-Bus APIs (like udisks2, timedated, networkmanager, etc) instead of trying to access the raw devices themselves.

>There's a bunch of influential people that are bent on making "Linux desktop" be something that competes effectively with Windows and MacOS. Setting aside that I don't think those are particularly desirable objectives in the first place, I simply don't see it happening. Despite their deficiencies, Windows and MacOS work better than Linux desktops.

I don't disagree with the last part here but, companies like Canonical exist and they get paid to ship this stuff. There are customers out there who want this, and they may very well be the ones paying some money or contributing maintenance towards keeping your browser and media player working on Linux. I don't know any overarching reason why these customers would deploy Linux instead of Windows, you would have to ask them.

>I realise that my usage pattern isn't universal; I was just correcting the claim that "all desktops use it". You only need one counterexample to refute such a claim.

Sorry but I don't think any usage of the terminal is a counterexample. That's just sidestepping the desktop, you could also do that from a VT with no GUI present.

[denton-scratch]

> another part is that applications started using the higher level D-Bus APIs (like udisks2, timedated, networkmanager, etc)

Not the applications that I use! The machine in question doesn't have dbus or systemd. It only has one user. That layer of complexity is of zero value to me, but it's the very devil to get rid of it all.

> Sorry but I don't think any usage of the terminal is a counterexample.

If, on Windows, you have to perform a task for which there is no pre-made GUI app you can install, then you have to run-up powershell or cmd. My case is identical. I specifically referred to one-off tasks.

It's not my use of terminals that is the counterexample; it's the fact that I run a desktop without polkit (or anything-kit).

[throwawaysysd]

On Windows, if there has been value in putting those tasks in a GUI in the control panel, they will do it. It's the same deal.

Yes you can technically build a system without dbus or systemd or polkit or gettext or the C library or whatever it is you feel is superfluous. As you've found it is not actually difficult to do that, just tedious and impractical. You aren't gaining anything here by removing things. If you want equivalent functionality you're now tasked with building the equivalents, e.g. Android which is also a single user userspace for Linux without dbus or systemd, but has its own fairly complex set of high level services and IPC system.

[denton-scratch]

> As you've found it is not actually difficult to do that, just tedious and impractical.

That is the opposite of what I have found; I find that it's "the very devil" to remove these components. And my finding is that the presence of these components is tedious and impractical, and that their absence makes my life better.

> You aren't gaining anything here by removing things.

That is condescending.

I've used machines with these services and I've used machines without. I find it's a gain to not have them. Who are you to tell me whether I do or don't gain anything?

FTR I don't have to build anything; there are alternatives, which I use. Unfortunately these new components are more-or-less rivetted-in, which makes it hard to remove them and replace them. Screws are better than rivets.