[bjeds]

I have a hard time following this article because it's so obviously one-sided and ranting.

FWIW the Stockholm Metro is also privatized in the sense that operation, planning and maintenance is done by MTR Corporation, the same company that owns and operates the Hong Kong Metro. MTR also operate a lot of other subway systems in the world, for example Sydney. I don't see any problems inherit in the privatization: Stockholm is excellent and so is Hong Kong.

Tokkaido Line in Japan runs at 187 percent capacity according to a quick googling.

[scaramanga]

The rest of Seoul's transportation infrastructure is so well managed and universally liked that the problems with Line 9, taken in that context, make it look hysterically bad. I have to say that the labour issues sound awful, but as someone from the UK, the profiteering and overcrowding issues sound quaint and almost laughable. There's no doubt that this ownership structure was setup as a grift for juicing citizens. But from the perspective of a user, I would describe line9 as "more overcrowded at rush hour than the other lines" but on the flipside, the rolling stock and stations are newer and nicer...

The proposed price hikes were a scandal at the time and public outrage was tangible. But the relevant context here is that the Mayor of Seoul is second only to the president, and usually it is someone with aspirations to run for president. There's things a Seoul Mayor a cannot do if he likes votes, and one of those is piss off everyone who uses the metro (which is everyone).

I think with privatisation, it just depends on the specifics. If the system can be privatised without bilking the ridership, compromising safety, or abusing the employees then, by all means, have at it. But if you're writing from the US, or the UK, especially if you work within the transportation system, it's understandable that you would get ranty when you consider how badly privatisation has fucked things up there.

[More-nitors]

> this ownership structure was setup as a grift for juicing citizens

...which is poorly done (minus profit)

[actionReaction]

I was so confused of the flow of writing and one sentence made me understand what just happened. "I grew up in Seoul in the 1990s before coming to the United States, so I missed all of Line 9’s construction and operations." The media in South Korea have criticized any privatization of public service for so long time. Trust me I have lived in this country more than 25 years. Even though author asserted that "I will list all sourcing as best as I can, all from media outlets in South Korea (of both left and right political leanings) I have vetted and determined as legitimate." Yes, the sources of articles are from both left and right leaning but the thesis of this post is villifing semi-privatization of Line 9. To me, the cause of Line 9 chaos is not from privatization but from the intervention of political campaign in this problem. Conservatively expected passenger numbers can go wrong, but they must not make mistakes on back-up plans, and they just did make mistakes on purpose for the sake of winning election.

[More-nitors]

so the guy never rode line9 and is writing this article... hmm-teresting...

And the article mentions "it's not economically feasible to add more cabinets due to the extra construction work required..."

...but the line9 stations are actually built to accommodate 8 cabinets (instead of current 6), and there are even screen-doors ready for those cabinets...

[csdvrx]

> I have a hard time following this article because it's so obviously one-sided and ranting.

Same. The author also discloses his own biases against privatization.

Given the other reports here of well-operating metros run by MTR, could it be that this one failed because of french technology and involvement? (side questions: are these other MTR metros also join ventures with french companies?)

I read on his blog that 2 french companies were involved: Veolia and RATP. During a short 2 weeks visit to Paris in 2019, I was shocked how bad the metro was, even when compared to NYC which has a similar aging infrastructure

I was not expecting something as shiny and comfortable as in DC, but the seats were minuscule, the stench overpowering at times, and the general decay made me feel queasy about health risks (even pre COVID!). I then learned what RATP means for Parisians: "Retre Avec Tes Pieds" ("Walk Home")!

I also note a pictures captioned as "Line 9 employees on strike in 2017, holding the sign “Hold the French corporations responsible!”" so given my personal experiences and the employees signs, I'd first suspect french incompetence over "privatization can't work".

[BrandoElFollito]

"Rentre Avec Tes Pieds" is not a common name for RATP (I heard it only once) and it is related to the strikes everyone is fed up with.

But yes, our metro is not the shinest part of the capital.

[sandstrom]

The Stockholm metro is run by MTR, but they don't own it.

They're only staffing the trains and platforms, not to different from e.g. a police station paying a sub-contractor to sweep their floors and manage the reception desk. The police station is still mostly a government run thing.

For example, MTR doesn't invest any money in new lines/tunnels, or buy/maintain the trains.

I don't think it's fair to compare it to this Korean line, it's not apples to apples.

[secondaryacct]

Yes MTR here in Hong Kong is quite respectable: the subway works well, the price is cheap, the company redevelop a lot around stations, it's a model of proper corporate management of public infrastructure.

The only snag they faced in my 7 years here is when they were caught in the crossfire during the protest: at first they would help evactuate protestors during police intervention but then the police asked them instead to help them capture them which led to widespread destruction by protestors.

My own anti protest stance is mostly due to the wanton destruction of MTR properties which I found distracted from the original issue by the angelic democrats turned subway destructors.

[robjan]

MTR Corporation is 75% owned by the Hong Kong government and receives subsidies in the form of land leases granted below market value and a monopoly on rail infrastructure. I really appreciate the MTR, and am also a part of the 25%, but it's not really a truly private company.

[jhvkjhk]

Wikipedia said:

> MTR Corporation Limited is a majority government-owned public transport operator and property developer in Hong Kong... > Owner: Hong Kong Government 75.09%, Others 24.91%

So I think MTR is still owned by government?

[xtiansimon]

As far as by privatization goes, I don’t much care for it with busses. But I’m having trouble seeing the issue here with the train, other than the financials which seem favorable to the corporation.

[More-nitors]

> the financials which seem favorable to the corporation.

well line9's profit is minus... (except for 2014 due to some accounting stuff...)

[xtiansimon]

Here in Nassau Co, NY there was a lot of discussion that Viola was interested to take over running the bus business, because it would give them a toe-hold in the county and chance to get contracts for a sewer project, which the parent company was also into. I don’t know if it’s gone the way they wanted, but you can get the play.