[norswap]

"Oh, bullshit. Do you really think there is someone siting around at Apple dreaming up new ways to take away your freedom?"

> No but I honestly thinks there are people sitting around at Apple dreaming up new ways to take away your money, even if it entails taking away your freedom.

"The people at Apple just want to make damn good products. They are proud as hell of those products. They work very hard to make them that damn good."

> Yeah... As an aside I think Apple is overrated. It's interfaces are nifty but as seen with Lion they're not above a misstep. Plus while they offer a very nice first-time ("store") experience, with time it's edge over the other OS slowly fades. You have to learn all the keyboard shortcuts or you'll be a bit helpless in your shiny OS.

Even hardware which tends to be quality can fail, as witnessed with graphic cards overheating problems for instance.

"My Girlfriend's Android phone (a highly rated model) is a horrible piece of crap next to the iPhone. It lags, crashes, has UX issues, flimsy hardware. The iPhone is a glorious, crowning achievement of engineering that still, years later, Microsoft and Google are struggle to replicate."

> Anecdotal evidence does not make a general truth. I for one have had the exact opposite experience. I had an iPhone 3G and with the new firmware the thing was a trainwreck of usability, while my new Samsung Galaxy S2 is snappy as hell. This is essentially irrelevant, as it has to do with computing power more than product quality (tough I get more bang for my computing power in Android, the iphone firmwares have brought me copy/paste and ... what ?).

[snprbob86]

Side note: Please do not use "> " for your reply. That is generally reserved for quoting what you are replying to.

> No but I honestly thinks there are people sitting around at Apple dreaming up new ways to take away your money, even if it entails taking away your freedom.

Sure, there is some dude somewhere who only cares about driving up the quarterly numbers. But generally Apple has a pretty long record of shipping premium products at a premium price and selling them with a "buy it or don't" attitude. With the possible exception of those damn video adapters, I've never felt like Apple was trying to squeeze money out of me. Sure, they had to play the DRM game with iTunes and let's not even get into the bullshit that the telcos get away with. But, as a composite entity, Apple has been pretty damn respectful of it's customers.

> Yeah... As an aside I think Apple is overrated.

Different tastes for different people. Go ahead, buy whatever product you like. Just don't accuse a team of hard working, talented people of being out to take your freedom.

> It's interfaces are nifty but as seen with Lion they're not above a misstep.

I'm quite happy with the improvements in Lion.

> Plus while they offer a very nice first-time ("store") experience, with time it's edge over the other OS slowly fades. You have to learn all the keyboard shortcuts or you'll be a bit helpless in your shiny OS.

I've used a Windows machine since before I could speak. I worked for Microsoft for several years. I now cringe every time I have to touch the one Windows box at our office.

> Even hardware which tends to be quality can fail, as witnessed with graphic cards overheating problems for instance.

And you've never had a component on your other machines fail? shrug When the machine I built had a power supply failure, I had to go fucking replace it. I was free to use whatever power supply I wanted, but I wasn't free to use my damn computer for the four days I waited for my new component. When my iMac had a buzzing noise, they replaced it in the store in under an hour.

> I had an iPhone 3G and with the new firmware the thing was a trainwreck of usability

Freedom isn't free. Making that new software compatible with that old hardware costs time and money. They did a decent job to appease the tiny cross-section of people who upgrade software, but don't upgrade hardware. Most people don't even know what a software upgrade is, so their old OS version is running just fine on the hardware it was tested against. In general, those who do care about having the latest and greatest can afford a phone upgrade.

> tough I get more bang for my computing power in Android

Who cares how much bang you get? It does the same stuff. Again, it's clear you value different things.

Look, I'm not gonna respond further because as far as I'm concerned, I've made my point: It's not right to personify corporations as evil simply because they don't match your personal taste. It's insulting to the people who work really fucking hard and take great pride in the (not so) small impact they leave on the world.

[vacri]

When the machine I built had a power supply failure, I had to go fucking replace it. I was free to use whatever power supply I wanted, but I wasn't free to use my damn computer for the four days I waited for my new component.

vs

When my iMac had a buzzing noise, they replaced it in the store in under an hour.

So "sitting on my arse doing nothing, I had to wait four days for a replacement" versus "I physically took my machine to the Apple store and they gave me a replacement at the same time".

These are purposefully selective anecdotes. With your first repair, you yourself could have gone to a store - just like you did with the iMac, only not having to carry the damn thing - and got a power supply in five minutes, taken it back to the office, and had it installed and back up in half an hour. Computer stores and power supplies are as common as muck - unless your desktop PC is really weird, you'll find something suitable by simply throwing a brick.

Total time spent in process for each 'go to shop' scenario? Less than an hour plus travel time. And with the non-imac one, you don't even have to ferry the computer around. All in all, a pretty similar experience.

Unless of course your anecdote is even less fair and the 'four day wait' was for a server part.

It's insulting to the people who work really fucking hard and take great pride in the (not so) small impact they leave on the world.

People who work hard and take pride in the (not so) small impact they leave can still be doing a bad thing, even though they're full of good intentions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations (This link is just a strong example, I'm not trying to draw a parallel)

[snprbob86]

Both repairs were free (err...gratis) warrantee replacements by the manufacturer. Of course I could have paid for a new component or repair at a local computer shop.

> can still be doing a bad thing, even though they're full of good intentions.

Totally agree. I just don't think they are doing a bad thing either. No one is forcing you to buy a locked down device. No one is forcing you to make a particular freedom tradeoff. Buy whichever product you like for whichever reasons you like. But just be cognizant of the tradeoffs and their costs without making value judgements about those who make different tradeoffs, both as consumers and as producers.

[vacri]

But just be cognizant of the tradeoffs and their costs without making value judgements about those who make different tradeoffs, both as consumers and as producers.

I agree about the consumers bit - what's good for me may not be good for you - but don't agree about the producers. We should be able to raise constructive criticism if we see a producer as damaging - and I think the exhortation to 'leave them alone, they work hard' isn't right.

[vacri]

Also: On the repair front, how long would you have been waiting for Apple to come to your office and replace the faulty part? :)

[josteink]

Just don't accuse a team of hard working, talented people of being out to take your freedom.

Are you saying the people working on Android, Metro and platforms not owned by Apple are not talented or hard working? If not, why is the manner in which Apple people are working really relevant?

You are simply evading the point. It seems like to you, your ownership of Apple devices is a personal obligation to defend Apple from its "enemies". It isn't. Again I am forced to asked why you are doing this. It taints the rest of your argument and makes everything you do sound awfully much like zeal, and not like a rational opinion.

[snprbob86]

> Are you saying the people working on Android, Metro and platforms not owned by Apple are not talented or hard working?

That's not what I'm saying at all. I was simply taking Apple as an example. The original article was about iOS and I think it's fair to say that from the original commenter's perspective, Apple is out to get your freedom.

I, in fact, was a contributor to Windows Phone 7. I worked damn hard to get the XNA deployment and debugging to work super smoothly. I'm supper proud of my small contribution to that product.

However, the Win Phone platform offers just a tiny bit more freedom of hardware choice. And that comes with a cost. I can tell you that having a dozen potential devices floating around the office, with varying graphics cards and other specs, was very time consuming for development. The first Win Phone 7 would have been much more timely if there was a single hardware platform locked down much earlier in the development schedule.

As for Android, it's further down the spectrum. You hear about fragmentation and whatnot. There are very real costs associated with the flexibility that platform offers. Freedom isn't free. Sometimes it is worth it. For some people, like myself, I choose a different type of freedom for my phone.