[jamps]

That's correct. At some point we need to look at the real data of deaths. https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/ In Europe, there has NEVER been A PANDEMIC for people <45yo.

All care should have focused on the elderly (early treatment, access to doctors even when positive...). No restrictions (mask, mandatory vaccine, lockdowns..) makes sense for those aged under 45yo.

[maxerickson]

Vaccinated people suffer much less from a course of infection than unvaccinated, in all age groups.

Not necessarily 'long covid' stuff, just the basic injury that comes from the illness. I sure don't want to lose my sense of smell.

Even in young children, the consequences of infection appear to be worse statistically than the consequences of vaccination. It's of course not all that well understood yet, but for example, compare this syndrome that appears to be associated with Covid infection to the myocarditis due to vaccination:

https://www.cdc.gov/mis/mis-c.html

If you look at what pediatricians and epidemiologists with children are doing, they are being pretty cautious and are eager to vaccinate them.

[jamps]

My point here was death. The fact that there is no life threatening disease for 0-45yo on a statistical level in Europe. Death for this age group is lower than it was in 2017.

> Vaccinated people suffer much less from a course of infection than unvaccinated, in all age groups.

I don't know how you can measure that. And that's not how these vaccines have been sold. They were supposed to have 95% efficacy at lowering risk of getting COVID-19 compared with the control group. We know now that is not the case as it does not help to control the epidemic (most vaxed countries with the highest cases). Transmission and contamination are not reduced with the vaccine.

So now we are told that it was never supposed to stop transmission, but miraculously, it makes your body handle the COVID better.

I don't know what data is used, but if you look for example in scotland (Page 44 https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11223/22-01-19-covid...) There is no obvious difference between the vax or unvaxed in term of hospitalization or covid positivity (p.38) unvaxed even seem to do better.

This is health, people are always going to get sick, not just from COVID. We need to fight all diseases with the best weapons we got. Against Covid, vaccines are 1 weapon, so is anti-viral drugs, antibiotics anti inflammatory and anti coagulant.

But we should let each individual choose with his doctor what treatment he wants. And not guilt young children to take an experimental drug where we don't know the long term efficacy or side effects.

[maxerickson]

Yeah, it's a mistake to only consider deaths.

And it's a mistake to evaluate the vaccines in terms of what was said about them over time versus the impact they currently have. They currently confer lots of protection to people that have received them.

Like the fact that the officials and manufacturers failed to properly communicate that it's a dynamic, changing situation doesn't actually undermine the very real value that the vaccines still provide.

[crateless]

Mortality rate (p.50) and hospital admissions (p.44) muddy the picture quite considerably. Would love to see similar figures for other countries in Europe.

[madeofpalk]

You can be sick without dying. I don't want to get sick.

[jseban]

Everyone gets sick, you can't really stop that. Restricting your life from normal activities from fear of being infected with low risk cold viruses, is the very definition of hypochondria

[biorach]

>In Europe, there has NEVER been A PANDEMIC for people <45yo.

What? This is completely, wildly,untrue. See for starters Spanish Flu (killed mostly those aged under 45), smallpox (disproportionately affecting children)

[jamps]

Apologies, I was not clear. There has never been a "deadly COVID19" pandemic for <45yo

[bla3]

Looking at those graphs, it does look like it's getting there for 15-44 years too, no?

[jamps]

Yes, we can see that something is different in the last months of 2021. So either Omicron, as we now that it affects younger people as well. Or another cause... Either way, it is close to the 2018 high. It would be bold to qualify that as a pandemic!

[bla3]

I don't know, _all_ points where the graph crosses the "Substantial increase" line were 2020+ or later.