[javert]

> I'm not sure what you mean when you say that Bitcoin can scale by using 3rd party payment providers?

Try thinking about it. It would work the same way PayPal works with USD. Bitcoin payments simply don't need to happen on the blockchain. Similarly, I can buy gold in my brokerage account without any actual gold moving between warehouses.

> Of course proof of stake can be decentralized! I think what you mean is that it's not clear whether a widely adopted PoS based blockchain will end up centralizing power in the hands of a few whales. This is a legitimate concern

That's right, which is why it probably can't be decentralized. Even if the majority of holders are small individuals, the coins still end up on exchanges, which become whales.

> however, this threat is no different than the threat of centralization of computing power in Bitcoin.

This is a common misunderstanding of Bitcoin. Bitcoin miners do not "vote" or participate in governance. Thus, bitcoin does not have vulnerabilities that proof of stake has. Bitcoin's decentralization does not come from miners. It comes from users who run nodes and enforce the rules of bitcoin by not recognizing illegitimate protocol changes, invalid blocks, etc. Market forces also play an important part: Bitcoiners would not pay for coins from a block that breaks the rules of bitcoin, because those coins will not be recognized as being bitcoin.

[riptheworld]

Oh sheesh. No one said anything about Bitcoin miners voting. I was simply pointing out that centralization of mining power (which has already happened in Bitcoin) has essentially the same security impact as centralization of wealth in proof of stake consensus mechanisms.

> It would work the same way PayPal works with USD. Bitcoin payments simply don't need to happen on the blockchain. Similarly, I can buy gold in my brokerage account without any actual gold moving between warehouses.

This is a terrible idea.