[throwmeaway666]

>we were part of the cost cutting measures. >the event that lead to my eyes being opened to the world of Silicon Valley tech companies

I found that being aware of whether you will be part of the cost center or profit center in a company is very useful when deciding where you should work.

[santoshalper]

This one really hit me personally. When I was young, my father advised me that in my career I should stay "close to the money". It made a lot of sense, and I tried, but I ended up moving increasingly into financial services technology.

Now, 25+ years later, I am the head of technology (C-Level) for a large financial services firm (Fortune 200). I report to the CEO, I lead thousands, I am handsomely compensated, but I am professionally lonely.

Over the years, I have become very, very good at explaining technology concepts to non-tech peers (I think it was an intrinsic skill that got me here), but honestly, I am exhausted. I don't think I have it in me to explain technical debt, or the importance of investing in our platform, or how to run a build/buy process or why having an engineering culture is so important. I long to work at a company where my work is intrinsically respected. My peers are polite, but treat the work my team does like magic. It felt deferential at first, but now it feels condescending. I think I've done a great job of creating a real technology culture, but in the last year I realized I am never going to turn us into a technology company, no matter how hard I try.

The lesson is - if you want to work at a technology company (revenue is directly generated through licensing or SaaS fees), then don't compromise. You won't be able to change the nature of your employer no matter how high up the ladder you climb.

My litmus test is this: If you couldn't imagine a company installing a former engineer as their CEO, don't consider it a tech company no matter what the leadership claims.

[toss1]

THIS^^ So much this.

If the executives from the CEO on down fail to understand technology as the source of a serious competitive advantage, then you will be seen merely as a glorified janitor, or maybe plumber. They do absolutely essential work, but nobody respects them.

And one guarantee, if your company (or one you are considering) looks at technology as a cost center, then I can guarantee that they do NOT and WILL NOT see technology as the source of any competitive advantage. You'll be nothing more than a plumber on a team of plumbers who will be ignored, until a pipe breaks, then you'll be blamed for it happening even if they congratulate you for fixing it to your face. Good luck with that.

[DwnVoteHoneyPot]

> my father advised me that in my career I should stay "close to the money"

I got the same advice from my father, but it meant something different. I was told if I went into computer science or any engineering, I'd always be a servant to management and my job would be outsourced to India. I would be easily replaceable. Best to be "close to the money" instead... that was management. Also, to make "real money", I'd have to move up from engineering to management and wouldn't be programming anyway.

So I went to business school. Might as well optimize and skip the engineering step and go straight into managment. And to be even closer to the money: finance degree.

15+ years later, while finance has been fine, I just really like programming. I have a real aptitude for it. Had to teach myself to code, started side hustle online business (finance is still day job). I might get the same salary as a FAANG software engineer (without the skyrocketing stock), but I always wonder what if I did comp sci instead.

Then, on HN I see comments like yours. Many here hate management, or in your case, moved up to the top of IT management and still seem unsatisfied.

Now, I figure grass is greener on there side... Management says they are treated like a cost center and engineering is "closer to the money" as in profit center. Engineers, even in the profit center, gripe at those MBAs who are "closer to the money" as in directing the business plan, budget and timelines.

In my next life, I'll just do what I enjoy and am good at.

[decafninja]

Agree with this 100%. I now make it a point to avoid any companies where tech is an unrespected cost center, which unfortunately does rule out the overwhelming majority of companies out there.

That said, even companies where SWEs and tech are the profit center are certainly capable of laying you off, so profit vs cost center isn't really any insurance to avoid that sort of fate. Even at the banks I've worked at the traders (profit center) would face the axe before us lowly peasants in the tech departments.

Rather, it's more an issue of respect...and relative compensation.

[willcipriano]

I have one primary question that I'm trying to figure out during job interviews. "Will my boss understand what I produce and the difficulty involved in producing it?" if the answer is no, the job is going to suck.

[decafninja]

It's not just one level though. You can ask the same about whether your boss's boss will understand, and so on and so forth up the food chain.

The problem with many tech-as-a-cost-center companies is that you will quickly run into a person on that hierarchy who doesn't (often at or near the intersection between tech departments and the profit center business departments).

[grahamm]

And if your company wants to "flatten the structure" running into that person is more likely and you will run in to them.

I also have a problem with ex-developers who work their way up the structure with time. Generally they drift away from the tech and what tech takes and end up serving their higher masters. So you end up with someone who thinks they know what it takes but hasn't actually done it for many years. Literally had this again the other day when I gave an estimate for a piece of work one of the devs had done a decent bit of investigation on. Bluntly told that was too much time from someone who had really no much more info than the subject line of the bug report. Of course who had the weight to get their estimate across.....(not me)

[willcipriano]

I like the rule whoever estimates lowest gets to do it. If you aren't in the running to do it, your estimate doesn't count. It's easy to armchair quarterback if someone else is on the line.

[rr808]

> I found that being aware of whether you will be part of the cost center or profit center in a company is very useful when deciding where you should work.

The problem with most tech companies these days is they dont make profits.