[asdf_snar]

> Then at some point people, as adults, feel like they have to drink to enjoy themselves? I wonder what happened.

It feels like this question is disingenuous. You don't need fire starter to start a fire either, but wouldn't it be silly to conclude fire starter doesn't make starting a fire easier? Moderate alcohol consumption in an intimate environment is a lot of fun.

Put differently, if alcohol didn't present such serious health risks, I wouldn't be making an effort to cut it out of my social circles. As it stands, though, my friends, family and I have started referring to it as "poison", just to be totally transparent about what we're doing when we meet for drinks.

[endisneigh]

I don’t understand your comparison with a fire.

Your claim that moderate alcohol consumption makes things more fun is part of the point of my post. Is this actually true, or just a rationalization of people who already drink?

No judgement for those who do drink, by the way.

[asdf_snar]

Before I continue, I think it's also important to note different people metabolize alcohol differently and feel its effects differently. Many Russians can take care of 0,5L of vodka in one sitting and still function. (Russian men aged roughly 20-45 also die from alcohol at absurdly high rates.) So as with all things, our discussion is purely a subjective one -- I find it useful, though, as it helps me analyze my own drinking habits.

> Your claim that moderate alcohol consumption makes things more fun is part of the point of my post. Is this actually true, or just a rationalization of people who already drink?

Right. It's a good question, and I don't know the answer, and I've tried hard to introspect and distinguish between rationalizing and it being true.

As someone pointed out above, the fire starter analogy is better than one might think -- if you are enlightened enough, you don't need alcohol to start a fire. In my experience, though, few things open up a conversation with a stranger as quickly as a little alcohol. I'm not saying I've never had an intimate conversation with a stranger in which we both showed vulnerability without alcohol. But the psychoactive aspect of intoxication makes those conversations with alcohol more memorable, stranger or closest friend. I've tried hard to determine whether I'm just fooling myself, or if alcohol is actually making something "funner". My conclusion is that if I am fooling myself, the trick is good enough that I'll probably never figure it out.

[penjelly]

It is true. It allows some people open up in ways they wouldnt before. Your point could apply to psychedelics, are they necessary for personal growth and changing perspectives? No. Can they help & accelerate the process? Yes.

- anecdote from someone who doesnt like drinking much

[xenocratus]

I used to hate drinking and only drank very small quantities of alcohol at parties/gatherings. That's changed somewhat in the past few years. I've only been drunk 3-4 times in my life (I'm 29, male, living in a Western country), and even then it was mild (no blackouts, hangovers, feeling sick, etc.). However, I believe that when I do drink for social lubrication purposes, it does help. I'm quite introverted/withdrawn usually, and a few drinks definitely help with altering that balance a bit.

Of course, I've not done control trials on myself, with placebos and so on. It's just anecdata.

[tshaddox]

I mean come one, are we really going to argue that huge numbers of people are just fooling themselves into thinking that alcohol is fun? Yes. It is actually true that alcohol consumption makes many social situations more fun for many people.

[kaesar14]

It's true.

[mint2]

More apt analogy than one would think. lighter fluid and any product specifically labeled a fire starter do not really help if one has a basic understanding of fire except in extreme cases like for some reason the wood is soaking wet. And they have significant downsides in cost. lighter fluid is just gross. With even a modest understanding of how fire works all one needs is wood. Newspaper is good for charcoal.

“Fire starter” products are mostly only useful to people who don’t know what they’re doing or aren’t actually using it to start the fire but want to squirt in lighter fluid just to see big flames.

[MAGZine]

we're missing the point here, but newspaper isn't good for charcoal. You need sustained heat to activate charcoal--paper burns too quickly. The one time I tried to do this, I ended up slathering it in olive oil which would retard the flames a bit and drag the burn out.

It's fine if you don't like to drink, nobody is saying you have to, but saying that it doesn't lubricate social situations is just naive. Is it a crutch? In some cases, sure. In other cases--an enhancer.

[mint2]

With a chimney you use olive oil on newspaper?! Anyway enough about fire starting. To be honest if you’re having fun with campfires like once in a blue moon and don’t really know what you’re doing, a fire starter can be an okay crutch, but if you want to go camping often to have fun it’s much easier and cheaper to just use the wood and maybe a bit of paper. But that’s enough hijacking this thread to fire starting.

People come reliant on alcohol and can’t do it without it. It becomes a prerequisite not an enhancer. That sounds more parasitic than anything else.