[pgwhalen]

One thing that gives me hope is that the actual language designers have the right view on it, and I think are guiding the community in the right direction without explicitly condemning the way a lot of things are currently done (which would be a political nightmare).

For instance, records are a step away from mindless getters and setters - but rather than just add the syntactic sugar of properties, they introduced immutability as well.

[bedobi]

For sure, it's great that people like Josh Bloch, Brian Goetz (and many others) have been very aware of and trying to address all the problems and endorse (and enforce) solutions to them (for decades at this point)

but as much as I hate to say it it feels like it's a bit too little too late :/

and there's still this bizarre situation where seemingly most of the Java community is still living in the 90s

oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯