[alehander42]

God gives eternal life. In this case, the biggest problem we have isn't really sickness, or even physical death: it's separation from the Him: the Source of all that's actually good, and being enslaved to everything opposing Him.

Christ himself wasn't spared a brutal death in this life: many apostles and martyrs in a similar way, and this wasn't by accident. Earthly comfort or even health isn't the goal of christianity. Being re-united to God and stop being slaves to sin is more important: but this is a question of free will imho.

(as apostle Paul says in 2 Corinthians: 1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling,..)

The faith doesn't make sense, if one believes only in the material world. It's central point is the Resurrection: "If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied." (1 Cor 15:19)

[1] 1 Corinthians https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians...

[alexvoda]

What you stated is intended in perfect accordance with the Christian doctrine of various denominations. And if you can believe this, you will indeed live a happier more purposeful life. But not everyone can do that.

Unfortunately, this comment illustrates the issues with this line of thinking perfectly. There is no reason to strive to make life better for others or for one's self. The optimum Christian life optimises for the maximum confessed penance before death (but after baptism) in order to obtain salvation which is the optimum afterlife.

Precisely this overvaluation of afterlife and undervaluation of life results in this being called a death cult.

This is precisely why there is no empathy for the people who suffered from the pandemic. Millions died. Good for them.

[alexvoda]

To make it crystal clear, this is part of the comment that started this thread:

> But being scared of the air is certainly not something Jesus would have been.

In other words, a 76 year old man, 1 year away from retirement, the period of life one gets to reap the fruits of their labour, for whom Covid is not a mild cold, but most probably a matter of life and death, should grow some balls and behave like the omnipotent God.

It is crass.

Yet it is in accordance with Christian belief. Only a life of faith and penance after being baptized grants you a chance at salvation in the afterlife. One should face potential disease with courage, because one has faith in God. If it God's will, to die a quick death so be it. If it is God's will to survive unharmed for a few more years, so be it. If it is God's will to die a slow agonizing death, so be it.

I hope you can see how this line of thought can be nauseatingly repulsive to some people.

[alehander42]

I don't think any mortal human should behave as he is God. It's good to try to not get sick/prevent diseases.

However, you took this sense out of context: the context is "There is something worth non 0 value of living in a society who accepts you despite being sick or 'dirty', and is willing to take the risk of having those who are tainted amongst them. I feel that's an attitude that comes from a place of strength not weakness."

This is much more nuanced. Nobody should be forced to do this! And after all, it's someone's interpretation. The OT specifically instructed people for such diseases as you might know. Christ helped the sick not naively, but knowing he can heal them. Doing things naively is not always good.

The picture you draw sounds like a strawman of catholicism. Well, "The heart is deceitful above all things" says Jeremiah: our flesh is very proud and letting the ego go is extremely hard for it. However this is more similar to the frustration of a child wanting to create it's own society far away from parents and then going and living in the jungle in utter helplesness and self-delusion.

There is a paradoxical beauty in the eternal which is hard to even articulate and those materialistic arguments ring hollow. I can totally see how it might look like that, but I'd say it's a look from someone who haven't yet actually tasted the beauty of Christ and the faith, see the peace in the Word or the saints. I've been in a boat similar to yours many years(and yes, you can have read the Scriptures 10 times and led 200 discussions, information is just information)

[alexvoda]

So nice of you to backpaddle in the first 3 paragraphs. But the opening comment I critiqued was quite direct about the lack of Christian values of professor fearing Covid.

> The OT specifically instructed people for such diseases as you might know.

You just vindicated the professor. The students ar just as much vectors of disease as those lepers banished from the city were to the city city dwellers. The joys of incoherent dogma, you can always find an applicable quote.

Your 4'th paragraph is a space filler. Let me guess you are Eastern Orthodox. It is common for Eastern Orthodox to blame the Catholic heretics, or worse those Godless Protestants for all the bad reputation Christianity has among the non-religious. If only people knew the true Christianity, they would see the light.

As for your fifth paragraph, just no, to basically every sentence.

Excuse my sarcasm, but I really hoped you would be able to empathize with my previous comment and understand how awful the thread opener was, along with equally crass now deleted comments by podgaj and this comment by coldtea:

> On the other hand, this is life. You can die from 100 other ways, and in his age, he could die any moment anyway. At some point you soldier up and don't fuss like a baby over any danger.

Or this one by tokai:

> I rather get paid without having to work and taking any risk of illness, than doing my job and providing the students with the teaching they have paid for?

Have you maybe considered that maybe the professor is not a Christian. Maybe he is a Jew and behaving according to scripture by keeping their distance from people who are potential carriers of disease. Maybe their religion is none of our business and we should not assume strangers should behave as saints and judge them for not doing so. It truly is upsetting that pointing out the vitriol thrown towards him has failed elicit any trace of empathy towards him. And if entitled vitriol is bad, religiously moralistic vitriol is the worst.

[alehander42]

I actually almost haven't commented about the professor: I empathize with his frustration. I commented here not because of him, but because of the misrepresentation and misinterpretation of the Gospel.

I am a protestant. Despite that, I actually wanted to defend catholicism in the sentence you reference. Because many hollow critiques of christianity draw this caricature of gloom and hopelesness which is totally contrary to it, even to catholicism imho

I find it bizarre to focus on endless discussion of hygiene and misunderstood Biblical quotes which replace the actual focus on deep problems in the fallen human nature with filler. This happens all the time: the flesh is very happy to discuss every non-important detail leaping over the actual narrative and meaning.

The problem of humans is sin and separation from God: only Christ can fill the yearning for truth, meaning and actual love, not the emotional comfort zone filler that we often call love these days and only He can save us from being slaves to sin and our passions.

[alexvoda]

There are hollow critics and there are critics that have seen how deep the rabbit hole goes and have found there is nothing of interest at the bottom.

Catholicism has it's own unique flavours of gloom with purgatory. But the issue beeing critiqued is non-specific to any branch of Christianity. It is a core at the root of all Abrahamic relicions. All Abrahamic religions have a morality core. Morality of people is a prime concern of these religions. The moral framework is primary component of the dogma. Yet that very core is hollow.

I have detailed in a separete comment why the focus on hygiene was on point.

You claim that others do not get the narative and the meaning. Make no mistake, we get it. I am perfectly capable of playing your role in this debate. I have done so in the past plenty of times. In this entire debate I have not once denied the critique of hypocrisy with regards to pharisee rituals, nor have I denied that there is value in overcoming fear of disease. (These two are the relevant fragments to the discussion.) I have simply rejected that any if this is relevant to the professor's situation. I have critiqued the moralistic vitriol thrown his way. And I have rejected the notion of religion providing a foundation for morality.

We can discuss at length the various profound implications of each passage of the scripture. There are many great moral lessons to be extracted from Abrahamic religions as there are from any other supernatural fiction and a good interpretation can go a long way. But that is irrelevant for this thread, both me and betterunix2 were sarcastically critiquing the daft moralistic comment about the professor being "scared of air".

As for your last paragraph, you are free to believe whatever you want, and for as long as you are able to believe it, it will be wholesome for you and your peers of same belief. And rather gruesome for everyone else. I understand perfectly how liberating and empowering being a believer is. Eternalism is incredibly alluring. It provides the structure to keep chaos at bay. It is far more stable than other stances.

But just as you have found your eternalist fix, others have found their own different and incompatible eternalist fix. And others are fine navigating the stormy seas of other stances.