[pram]

There’s really no good reason to stick your neck out at a dysfunctional place. It’s like that for a reason. You might get grit from the experience, but more likely you’ll just become a bitter cynical husk. I know, I worked at Oracle.

[tra3]

> There’s really no good reason to stick your neck out at a dysfunctional place

I'm reading "The Pentagon Wars" [0], about how US Military used to develop weapon systems in the 70s and 80s; here's an anecdote from the book:

> General Gavin recounted how he had to bury fifty young men near the village of Gela, Sicily, in 1943.1 The men had pieces of their own bazookas ground into their bodies by the German tanks they had been trying to stop. Their new bazookas had failed to stop the tanks. General Gavin condemned the Ordnance Corps for not testing the bazookas against German tanks that had been captured in North Africa. There had been considerable controversy back in the States over the development of the bazookas. At least one prominent scientist on the project had resigned because of his conviction that the warhead was too small to stop a tank. Sadly, he was proved correct. General Gavin was angry that the Ordnance Corps bureaucracy had given his troops an untested weapon.

The book is great for a number of reasons one of which is describing how defense contractors were compensated on delivery not the quality. The bulk of the book deals with Bradley fighting vehicle development that was a death trap. James Burton, the author, ends up being pushed out of the military for raising a lot stink about the Bradley but not before making a huge difference in the design of the vehicle, that ends up saving a lot of lives.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon_Wars

[jcadam]

I greatly enjoyed the movie. They actually played it for us when I was in the military attending a course on space operations and we got to the subject of acquisitions.

[protomyth]

Study the development of American torpedoes for WWII as further reading. The Bureau of Ordnance has a lot of American blood on its hands.

[ncmncm]

On the other hand, they saved many Japanese lives. For a while, anyway.

[ncmncm]

Almost until 1944, the torpedoes that US submarines were obliged to use on Japanese warships would not blow up when they hit.

Toward the end of that period, some submariners determined that if they shot the torpedo so it struck at a shallow angle, the shock would not so damage the fuse as to make it completely fail.

[LinuxBender]

I worked at a similar place and to call it dysfunctional would be an understatement. It made me a stronger and more fearless person but I was already a bit obstinate and had a tendency to challenge authority so it was ultimately good for me. I can see where different personality types would be affected positively or negatively by such an environment. It's not for everyone.

[crispyambulance]

YMMV, but if the immediate team that you're working with has good leadership, sane people with rapport and trust amongst each other that can go a long way towards a positive working environment, even if the organization as a whole is an ocean of shit-show. It just means you got to be ready to jump ship quickly if something poisons your team (eg, an acquisition, or org-change).

[lmilcin]

Every place is dysfunctional to some extent.

Working in truly dysfunctional and trying help the situation has taught me very valuable lessons that are very useful in less dysfunctional organisations.

In other words -- seeing very clearly bad things helps you recognise it when it is less clear. Fixing very bad makes fixing less bad almost effortless.

[hikerrrr]

Eh, was semi rewarded myself for sticking my neck out at Oracle, rest of my team was let go, I was rewarded for my good attitude and small expertise just for showing up where previous coworkers couldn't. Reward was that I got to keep my job and watch my other coworkers told to take a hike... The challenge then became how to drop my cynicism more than how to work the dysfunctional org.

[renewiltord]

Getting to keep your job at Oracle seems to have been the real punishment here.