[BatteryMountain]

And the core issue is, sql is just strings. It only fails at runtime and not a compile time. There is no compile-time strong/static typing, you only find out its broken when you run it. So it makes it really difficult to re-use. The other problem is, you have to specify table and column names in queries (duh, how else), but that means the entire persistence model is hard coded and need manual tweaking and so on. In an ideal universe, each field would be generic, each object generic and each collection of objects generic and all functions being generic. You'd end up with one huge flat structure of fields that are linked to each other to form more complex objects. But that not efficient in current computers nor do we have enough memory to store all information like that. And you might end up back at square one where everything is just strings.

[nottorp]

> The other problem is, you have to specify table and column names in queries (duh, how else), but that means the entire persistence model is hard coded and need manual tweaking and so on. In an ideal universe, each field would be generic, each object generic and each collection of objects generic and all functions being generic.

Yeah, define the database in a database. And then define the database for the definition of the database in a database.

If you'd like to deliver a product that does something, you've got to stop adding abstraction layers at some point.

[oblio]

The thing is, for sure we could define some use cases where it's possible to take that general case and make it specific. That's why I gave a concrete example.

I refuse to believe that absolutely every data storage and access in this world is unique.

Everybody believe that it's unique, and that's a different story.

OS vendors also thought their hardware was special and magical a long time ago and yet POSIX was invented and suddenly they were all more or less commoditized.

I feel that we're in the teen years of data storage/data access technologies. And SQL is sort of like dental braces.

[jbverschoor]

A long long time ago I sent in a patch to Hibernate to check the validity of all declared HQL queries.

There's no reason why it can't be checked, you just need to have your schema declaration.

Name clashes are everywhere. That's why you have namespaces/packages. In SQL they are called schemas. People don't really use them these days.

The tweaking is one of the great things. If you're hardcoding queries (not sql), you're actually defining the order of operations etc. A query analyzer will use statistics, and you can hint how queries have to be executed, depending on the shape of your data.

Your code is also just strings, until you compile it. Actually, these days until you run it. Your arguments would make more sense in the 90s where people would actually compile code.

You ideal universe is actually "The Inner Platform Effect". Better let pgsql be the data platform ;-)

[oblio]

> Your code is also just strings, until you compile it. Actually, these days until you run it. Your arguments would make more sense in the 90s where people would actually compile code.

His arguments made sense in the 90s, and amusingly, post 2015.

Your argument made sense in the 00s and before 2015.

Swift is compiled (Apple platforms; Objective-C has always been compiled).

Rust is compiled (multiple platforms).

Typescript is compiled (so web/Javascript).

Kotlin is compiled (Android; Java has always been compiled).

C/C++ were always compiled (POSIX; Windows).

C# was always compiled (Windows; POSIX).

Almost every modern language is compiled and if it's not, it's getting a very solid static analysis step that for sure you want to have and run (PHP got types a while back, Python is getting them, Ruby is getting them).

[jsyolo]

The other problem is, you have to specify table and column names in queries (duh, how else), but that means the entire persistence model is hard coded and need manual tweaking and so on.

This resonates with me If I understand you correctly, with RDBMS/SQL, the structural decisions you make in the database to represent your data "poison" your application making it difficult to change over time.