[stephen_g]

Those stunts sound super creepy and messed up. Weird, manipulative campaign.

This shouldn't really be legal surely in democracies to have campaigns that "appear to be the result of grassroots campaigns and children's charities, while downplaying any Government involvement", when it's a political manipulation campaign paid for, coordinated and organised by the Government themselves. I really hope the counter-campaign mentioned is good (although hard to compete with the already hundreds of thousands of pounds already allocated to this already).

[ben_w]

Sadly, this isn’t the first case of the U.K. government going for something this super creepy. I’ve personally seen London’s “Secure Beneath the Watchful Eyes” posters, which are felt like a parody by its own opponents to discredit it: https://mindhacks.com/2007/01/09/secure-beneath-the-watchful...

[unethical_ban]

"In a Godless society, Government creates the panopticon."

Or something. It sounds profound.

[tialaramex]

I mean, the present UK government also broke a whole bunch of other laws, so, why would they care if it's illegal?

The current British Prime Minister was literally fired from a previous job as a journalist because he can't stop telling lies. It's worth making a distinction from Trump here. Trump wasn't a liar, Trump was a bullshitter. A Liar knows what the truth is, and is trying to convince you of a falsehood, bullshitters have no idea what is true or false, they don't care. In some ways this makes Boris worse - he's deliberately trying to mislead you, which is harder to evade, is his claim that he enjoys making model buses a lie? Probably, but why is he lying about that? There were various theories. With Trump what he's saying has no connection to anything, so, it offers no clues as to the facts but at least you know that.

But like Trump, Boris is very popular with people who don't know much of anything. For them, the results of their support for Boris (everything got worse) are disheartening, but they're unable to join the dots. Who knows why this has happened, it surely can't be Boris' fault, wouldn't he tell us?

[ben_w]

Given that distinction between liar and bullshitter, I think Johnson is not even capable of comprehending that “truth” is a concept, let alone that other people can and do judge him for saying untrue things.

Main example that gives me this belief is this: https://youtu.be/wzUDRyciqVM

Where Boris Johnson says “well actually there’s no press here” to a man who responds by turning to and pointing out the press cameras filming both of them having this conversation and saying “What do you mean there is no press here? What are they then?”

[tialaramex]

Boris knows the press are there, they're the only reason he's even talking to that man. Off camera Boris would ignore him completely. But "Boris doesn't know this obvious TV camera is pointed at him" is charming buffoonery. "Boris is intentionally destroying the NHS to kill your grandparents" is something you might want to vote against.

Some politicians would try to engage on the issues, but a ten minute debate in a hospital corridor isn't going to make the highlight news even if your well-rehearsed answers work, and it might not even get reported in rolling news if there's man falling into a vat of blancmange or something that gets laughs. "Boris doesn't know the cameras are there" works.

And sure enough, it worked on you as intended and you've taken away the message Boris wanted you thinking about. Boris doesn't want your respect, Boris wants power and has since childhood.

Much more recently Boris hid in a (walk-in) fridge. Ha ha ha. But wait, why did he hide in a fridge? Well that's funny and it made the news and is still used in memes, whereas "Boris refuses to answer important questions" looks a bit like maybe we shouldn't have him as leader, doesn't it...

[ben_w]

> And sure enough, it worked on you as intended and you've taken away the message Boris wanted you thinking about.

You’re saying he wanted me to take away the message that he’s pathologically dishonest? Because that also looks a bit like maybe he shouldn’t be allowed to lead a country, or even his dog around for a walk without the supervision of someone more responsible.

[MagnumOpus]

> Johnson is not even capable of comprehending

Alex Johnson was scholarship boy at Eton and writing books about Shakespeare is his hobby. He is very well capable of comprehending abstract concepts and manipulating their perception to his benefit. He publicly portrays himself as "Boris the bumbling fool" but unlike Trump does not act like that in private. The fact that he is unethical and lazy does not mean he is stupid, and it is a dangerous assumption to make.

[ben_w]

IQ is a separate axis to what I’m saying. A person with prosopagnosia need not be stupid, they just lack the particular neural structures allowing face recognition. What I’m saying is like (but with much looser language than) saying Johnston lacks the neural structure for comprehension of the concept of truth.

[pjc50]

I remember discovering that the Scotland Office has a (crap) Buzzfeed posting account for the Indyref: https://www.buzzfeed.com/youdecide2014

[RansomStark]

This is normal for the UK.

It was the current government, well it's previous coalition instantiation that created the nudge unit[0]. A group of behavioural psychologists that use mind tricks to convince people to do as they are told, whether that is to drink less, or stop smoking or to follow COVID rules. A group that has since been spun off as a business to sell coercion as a service, to any two bit dictator, or free democracy that needs it.

This is the same government that deployed it's army information warriors against its own people during COVID [1]. The unit is known as 77 brigade and explains its mission as "modern warfare using non-lethal engagement and legitimate non-military levers as a means to adapt behaviours of the opposing forces and adversaries" [2].

The UK has never had more than a thin veneer of freedom, it's always been an aristocracy lording it over the rest of us. They should just do away with the pretence.

[0] https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/nudge-u...

[1] https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/77-brigade-is-countering-cov...

[2] https://www.army.mod.uk/who-we-are/formations-divisions-brig...

[hkt]

Or do away with the aristocracy. Now seems like a good time.

We have the same unaddressed issues as America does on race, but also with class. Social mobility was just a way of introducing crippling brain drain into working class communities - something which led to them being effectively criminalised as an underclass through ASBOs and the like.

(For the alternative to social mobility, the old line: "rise with your class, not above it")

[dTal]

>This is the same government that deployed it's army information warriors against its own people during COVID [1].

Your [1] link asserts, right at the very top, "It is important to note that this isn’t being directed at British citizens or at UK organisations, the effort is being directed at sources outside of the country."

[RansomStark]

Yes it does. The UK defence journey is not exactly an unbiased source and always follows the party line. However at least 1 MSP would disagree with that narrative [0] and suffered significant inline abuse for that post. Which oddly enough suggests he might have been on to something, given the brigades operations.

You will find this article is also biased, unfortunately in your current timeline finding unbiased sources is becoming harder everyday

[0] https://www.thenational.scot/news/17858200.vile-abuse-snp-mp...