[cycomanic]

I'm not making excuses I'm just talking about the realities. For the significant majority of researchers I know about version control is still program_v1.py, program_v1.py, program_final.py, program_final2.py (and this is the good version, at least they are using python), so talking about clean code is still quite a bit away. I'm teaching PhD students and it's even hard to convince them, because they just look at how to get the next publishable result. For academics it becomes even more unrealistic, most don't even have time to go to a lab, they are just writing grants typically.

I'm actually a strong supporter of open science, release my code OSS (and actually clean it up) and data (when possible). But just saying it's easy and there is no cost, is just setting the wrong expectations. Generally unless you enjoy it, spending significant time on your code is not smart for your career. Hopefully things are changing, but it is a slow process.

Funny that you talk about optics I know some of the most productive people in my field and their optical tables are an absolute mess (as is their code btw). They don't work at universities though.

[bmitc]

I still think it’s really not that hard, and actually, it’s really not even about code. It’s really just about organization, because as you point out, not everyone is great at it. But for example, messy optics tables, labs, or whatever do in fact cause problems, like efficiency and knowing what “state” of supporting tools yielded what result and several other derivative problems. I think my push would be just applying even a modicum of organization on supposedly ancillary things will go a long way rather than accepting them as reality.

I understand the realities and have even been a part of PowerPoint development where slides are emailed back and forth. Sometimes one just has to go with things like that. But I have also seen the reality of stubbornness. I have tried introducing source code control to scientists or even stuff like wikis, all supported and already up and running by IT and used by other groups. Scientists and engineers, especially those with PhDs, can a bit rejective and set in their ways. I have been told flat out by different people that they wouldn’t use tools like a wiki or that Python and C was all they ever needed. I have even noticed physicists saying “codes” for software instead of “code”. It’s fairly rampant, and I have seen it in research papers, published books, and in industry in person. I have never seen that use of “codes” anywhere else. That alone is evidence of a certain amount of culture and institutionalization of doing things incorrectly but viewed as acceptable within the field.

I have written code in some research contexts. I get the constraints. One just needs to take it seriously. But organization, in general, often takes a back seat in basically any field. The only way to change things like this are like anything, which is to push against culture.